cost of the hobby

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
i can not count the cost of tools because over the years i have collected enough tools to scratch build models. As a matter of fact i am on my second round of tools, those little hobby size tools are not a long term investment they burn up because they are light duty or occasional use. One by one all those hobby size tools ended up in the trash and replaced.
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I've added tools over many years, like you. Some added as a necessity to accomplish a specific task. Such as adding a lathe to turn spindles for a rocking horse. Others added as I could afford them. Planer, jointer, bandsaw... And most of the tooling I have for working wood can be adapted to produce parts for models. It was always great excuse to tell my wife I need another machine......!
 
it difficult to categorize a younger generation of model builders all three of my grandsons started with Legos and through high school and college grandson #1 is a civil engineer and loves static model engineering. Lucky for them grandpa has a full blown shop.

i belong to the local woodworking and wood turning club, we were approached by the school system to set up a program for high school students to teach wood turning. Yup the old high school shop classes has gone the way of the Dodo bird a relic of days gone by. The classes are full with a waiting list.
so i am thinking if a new generation has the ways and means they will follow.
we may of shot ourselves in the foot with comments like "oh if you want to build a ship model you have to use Boxwood or Swiss pear" ya right those are 10 times the cost and are for high end models. you do not have to start with them. Or stressing historical accuracy what's wrong with creative thinking?
Or selling $750.00 for a little table saw because you just can not live without it and you must have it.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
what's wrong with creative thinking?
Or selling $750.00 for a little table saw because you just can not live without it and you must have it.
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Nothing wrong with creative thinking. Unfortunately it’s been lost to “Social media” and the need for instant gratification.
As to the little table saw it’s up to the individual and I leave the merits as to which is best to him or her.
 
One negative aspect of the hobby which i think we should try and avoid is the idea some time ago a guild of model builders had this idea the hobby needed a group of elitists to maintain the high standards of the Admiralty models done by world class artists to show the upper class and collected by only the well to do.
The concept is the hobby of model ship building is an art form done by a select few to share esoteric knowledge to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest. You needed very expensive materials and tool and specialized skills. At one time it was suggested to become a member you had to submit a model built under the guidence of an established member, reminiscent of the old craftsmen guilds.
As it turned out the idea became a stigma and ended up turning away many hobby kit builders and would be scratch builders plus builders looking into the hobby
 
well the shippment of Steamed pearwood was delivered cost way more that the last shippment

DSCN1479.JPGDSCN1482.JPG

see that heartwood total scrap but when you buy the entire boul or trunk of one tree it comes with the deal. It is counted into the total board feet and cost of shipping. Like i said it is a take it or leave it, street value is about $400.00 per plank.

DSCN1480.JPGDSCN1481.JPG
 
Just a quick observation i have made, I record a build log of sorts (no film director just basic videos) and put them on You tube, the viewers of the channel are broken up as follows,

13–17 years 0%
18–24 years 1.0%
25–34 years 5.0%
35–44 years 12.9%
45–54 years 22.2%
55–64 years 31.0%
65+ years 27.9%

32500 views over 6 months

Younger people do not appear to be interested at all.
 
my West Indian Boxwood is getting a bit low and most of this pile is gone. i contacted my supplier and he said "no more" cost of containers, if you can even get one is extremely expensive. He does not want his investment sitting in a warehouse because the demand has dropped to almost nothing because of the high price he has to charge. Maybe west Indian Boxwood will vanish off the market.

box.jpg

i did have a supply of Bradford Pearwood which is a top of the line modeling wood, but now it is banned so what there is will be the last of it

DSCN0596.JPG

however we have tons and tons of plastic so maybe wooden ship models will be made of plastic some day.
 
GKIP said:
Just a quick observation i have made, I record a build log of sorts (no film director just basic videos) and put them on You tube, the viewers of the channel are broken up as follows,

13–17 years 0%
18–24 years 1.0%
25–34 years 5.0%
35–44 years 12.9%
45–54 years 22.2%
55–64 years 31.0%
65+ years 27.9%

32500 views over 6 months

Younger people do not appear to be interested at all.
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interesting those last two catagory are the baby boomers and we have all the money or a very large % of it so i am told.
is it our responsibilty to preserve the hobby so when the other catagories save up they can invest in the hobby and buy $1,200.00 kits
 
Guys... if "you want" this hobby can be done with very simple and inexpensive hand tools. I did a few ships with absolutely any power tool. Just go a look @Heinrich builts here at SOS. No fancy tools and he is doing a fantastic job.

Any new modeler can start with a $100 - $200 model (look my Marmara or the Russian submarine I built), just done with basic tools right out of the box.

Thread 'Marmara Trade Boat, 1:48 , SC brand [COMPLETED BUILD]' https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/marmara-trade-boat-1-48-sc-brand-completed-build.5645/


There are 100 examples here at SOS like those.

Cheers
Daniel
 
Dematosdg said:
Guys... if "you want" this hobby can be done with very simple and inexpensive hand tools. I did a few ships with absolutely any power tool. Just go a look @Heinrich builts here at SOS. No fancy tools and he is doing a fantastic job.

Any new modeler can start with a $100 - $200 model (look my Marmara or the Russian submarine I built), just done with basic tools right out of the box.

Thread 'Marmara Trade Boat, 1:48 , SC brand [COMPLETED BUILD]' https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/marmara-trade-boat-1-48-sc-brand-completed-build.5645/


There are 100 examples here at SOS like those.

Cheers
Daniel
Click to expand...
Exact, look to this Dutch modeler. In post #16 he shows the tools he is using
www.modelbouwforum.nl

Spiegelschip 140 voet. 1:88. 'de Rode Pieternel'

[ATTACH] eerst maar beginnen met de kiel.
www.modelbouwforum.nl www.modelbouwforum.nl
And he is not using a plan, just the discription in the books of Yk and Witse.
 
Dematosdg said:
Guys... if "you want" this hobby can be done with very simple and inexpensive hand tools. I did a few ships with absolutely any power tool. Just go a look @Heinrich builts here at SOS. No fancy tools and he is doing a fantastic job.

Any new modeler can start with a $100 - $200 model (look my Marmara or the Russian submarine I built), just done with basic tools right out of the box.

Thread 'Marmara Trade Boat, 1:48 , SC brand [COMPLETED BUILD]' https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/marmara-trade-boat-1-48-sc-brand-completed-build.5645/


There are 100 examples here at SOS like those.

Cheers
Daniel
Click to expand...
Precisely, tools are not a substitute for skill. They just make life a tad easier. IMHO
 
Dematosdg said:
Guys... if "you want" this hobby can be done with very simple and inexpensive hand tools. I did a few ships with absolutely any power tool. Just go a look @Heinrich builts here at SOS. No fancy tools and he is doing a fantastic job.

Any new modeler can start with a $100 - $200 model (look my Marmara or the Russian submarine I built), just done with basic tools right out of the box.

Thread 'Marmara Trade Boat, 1:48 , SC brand [COMPLETED BUILD]' https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/marmara-trade-boat-1-48-sc-brand-completed-build.5645/


There are 100 examples here at SOS like those.

Cheers
Daniel
Click to expand...

i agree i am building the Matthew with just basic hand tool not counting the laser cutting but it has been established many builders want the big fancy 64 gun ships. But even those out of the box do not require a lot of power tools maybe a Dremel is about it.
 
Precisely, tools are not a substitute for skill. They just make life a tad easier. IMHO

it would take more skill, time and patience to build using hand tools. Hum? if your jig is computer drawn and laser cut, all your wood is pre milled all the framing is pre cut everything is pre made then where is the old school skills of building a wooden ship model? your just assembling a 3D puzzle.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
Precisely, tools are not a substitute for skill. They just make life a tad easier. IMHO

it would take more skill, time and patience to build using hand tools. Hum? if your jig is computer drawn and laser cut, all your wood is pre milled all the framing is pre cut everything is pre made then where is the old school skills of building a wooden ship model? your just assembling a 3D puzzle.
Click to expand...

Some modelers want to built what they see on the box pictures... like ME :) . If it is a 3D puzzle fantastic. But, also those 3D puzzles have a lot of work to be done and skills to be applied as there isn't any kit that all fit perfectly (I haven't seen one yet) :) .

Then there is always the option to add or modify or improve the kit quality.... but these are "optionals". HAHAHA :)

Cheers
Daniel
 
And here we enter on what is this hobby, type of modelers, museum quality etc.....

I remember reading an excellent thread from you Dave about that... Am I correct ?

You can probably link it here.

Cheers !!
Daniel
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
it difficult to categorize a younger generation of model builders all three of my grandsons started with Legos and through high school and college grandson #1 is a civil engineer and loves static model engineering. Lucky for them grandpa has a full blown shop.

i belong to the local woodworking and wood turning club, we were approached by the school system to set up a program for high school students to teach wood turning. Yup the old high school shop classes has gone the way of the Dodo bird a relic of days gone by. The classes are full with a waiting list.
so i am thinking if a new generation has the ways and means they will follow.
we may of shot ourselves in the foot with comments like "oh if you want to build a ship model you have to use Boxwood or Swiss pear" ya right those are 10 times the cost and are for high end models. you do not have to start with them. Or stressing historical accuracy what's wrong with creative thinking?
Or selling $750.00 for a little table saw because you just can not live without it and you must have it.
Click to expand...
Of course Dave but they're the minority,, the engineering type, just as the history lover type. Not just the young either. the hobby of combining history and scale models is a Boomer hobby. In other modeling worlds its exactly the same. However in the MFCA "figure" type shows young artists abound but they're painters not builders.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
Precisely, tools are not a substitute for skill. They just make life a tad easier. IMHO

it would take more skill, time and patience to build using hand tools. Hum? if your jig is computer drawn and laser cut, all your wood is pre milled all the framing is pre cut everything is pre made then where is the old school skills of building a wooden ship model? your just assembling a 3D puzzle.
Click to expand...
Absolutely now the kits are all pre cut too. Much much easier for a person with interest.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
One negative aspect of the hobby which i think we should try and avoid is the idea some time ago a guild of model builders had this idea the hobby needed a group of elitists to maintain the high standards of the Admiralty models done by world class artists to show the upper class and collected by only the well to do.
The concept is the hobby of model ship building is an art form done by a select few to share esoteric knowledge to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest. You needed very expensive materials and tool and specialized skills. At one time it was suggested to become a member you had to submit a model built under the guidence of an established member, reminiscent of the old craftsmen guilds.
As it turned out the idea became a stigma and ended up turning away many hobby kit builders and would be scratch builders plus builders looking into the hobby
Click to expand...
Indeed. However everyone has their own interpretation of high standards and quality workmanship. They vary like the wind. Ignorance, eyesight, dexterity or they just don't know. The only person a modelers work has to satisfy is him or herself. Everyone has different ideas about what good work is and cant really differentiate good from totally masterful. I don't knock people. I just put it out there so its understood. Good enough for some may be a horrid mess for others.
 
OK MY 20CENTS WORTH( INFLATION, SHIPPING, ETC NOW LET US TALK ABOUT WAYS AND WHYS FIRST MY GRANDSON 13 YEARS OLD EXPRESSED AN INTERESTNIN DOING WOOD SHIP MODELS, WHILE HE WAS VISITING HERE, OK SO I TOLD HIM THIS AND HIS MOM TOO, DO NOT BE AFRAID IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE, WE ALL DO, I SOWED HIM HOW TO TAKE PARTS APART BOTH CA AND PVA SOME WEEKS OLD WITHOUT DESTROYING THE PART GAVE HIM A SET OF INSTRUCTION FOR M/S NORWEGIAN PRAM, ALSO ONE OF M/S BOATS BUILT ON A BOARD UPSIDE DOWN TOLD HIM IF HE GETS TIRED TO LEAVE IT, COME BACK LATTER COST I JUST ORDERED HIM A M/S GRAND BANKS DORY COST $30.00 GAVE HIM A BUNCH OF MY OLDIES BUT GOODIY TOOLS COST ZILTCH, WE WILL SEE HOW IT TURNS OUT. OK COSTS OUT OF THE BOX LET US SAY THE TOP OF THE LINE CHINEESE KIT COMING ON THE MARKET IS $2,000.00 I CAN NOT AFFORD $2,000.00 BUT TAKE THE SAME KIT AND DIVED IT INTO 4 OR 5 PARTS NOW THE COSTS BECOME AFFORDABLE HOW MANY KIT BUILDERS BUILD FAST ENOUGH TO COMPLETE THE MODEL BEFORE A SECTION ARISES IF I TAKE 3 OR 4 MOS, ON A SECTION BEFORE I NEED THE NEXT, DO I MAKE SENCE, ANOTHER THING TO SAVE MONEY OUR DEAR FRIEND AMOZON THE M/S DORY 30.00 FREE SHIPPING,, MICRO MART TOOL 100.00 PLUS $15.00 SHIPPING AMOZON SAME TOOL SAME MANUFACTURER $100.00 FREE SHIPING GET THE PICTURE NOW LET US TALK TOOLS THE OLD FANSHION SHOP TOOLS I TRY TO BY A COMBO WHEN I PURCHASE A TOOL, BAND SAW TABLE TOP $120.00 MENARDS FREE SHIPPING (PICK UP), NOT A HOBBY TOOL HAD MINE FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS NO TABLE SAW NEEDED CAN CUT SMALL VERY SMALL STRIPS ON BAND SAW CHANGE BLADES CAN RE-SAW SAME WITH MOST OF MY POWER TOOLS, DREMELLS I HAVE AT LEAST A DOZON DREMELLSCOST A FORTUNE NO WAY GO TO EBAY ROTARY TOOLS BY ALL KINDS, MODELS DREMELLS USED $10.00 TO $20.00 LOOK FOR FREE SHIPPING OR MULTIPLE ITEMS, SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS TO STAY IN THE HOBBY AND NOT PRICEING OURSELVES OUT OF THE HOBBY ALSO JUST BRIEFLY MY DAUGHTER-IN-LAW WHEN HERE ASKED ABOUT THE COST OF A MODEL I AM FINISHING I SAID APPROX. $800.00 SHE FLIPPED I SAID IT WILL BE CLOSE TO 2 YEARS BUILDING DIVEDE THE COST PER WEEK OF PLEASURE A ROUND OF GOLF NOW DAYS ABOUT $100.00. ENOUGH NOW MORE LATTER LET US TALK ABOUT SCRATCH, KIT, SEMI-SCRATCH AND POF VSPOB. AGE ALSO I KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THAT BOY I SURE DO. ONE EXAMPLE OF MANY WANTED A GRINDER A BEAST WAS VERY COSTLY SOLUTION SMALL GRINDER BATTERY OPERATED, MOVABLE LIGHT WEIGHT COST $40.00 AMOZON FREE SHIPPING HOPE THIS MAKES SENCE IT IS T6O LONG THINK GUYS. GOD BLESS STAY SAFE ALL DON
 
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