cost of the hobby

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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i do not know where this is going but the future is looking a bit grim.
I noticed many orders cost as much as or more for shipping than the actual wood order. I am running low on steamed pearwood so i contacted my supplier. The cost of the wood is $1,200.00 the cost of shipping is $850.00 this almost doubles my cost to restock. Plus on an avarage there is a 20% waste factor to figure in.
How much can the hobby take in jacked up costs before hobbyists start saying NO! i will not pay $1,250.00 for a model kit or NO! to 5 sheets of pearwood for $110.00 which 1/2 of that is shipping. Actually 70% of the cost is shipping because i had to pay outragious shipping to get it and then you the customer has to pay an outrageous amount to get the reswan wood.
 
I'm awfully tight but I know that if I had to pay that much I would have never started this. I cut my own wood and did all the sawing myself. You need a small table saw, an even smaller hobby table saw and a thickness sander so if you are staring from scratch it may be a toss up between wood and tools. It's also extremely messy and noisy which leaves out a lot of people.
Shipping is becoming a real big issue and I don't see it getting better. A lot of places offer "free" shipping but mark my words, it's in there.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
i do not know where this is going but the future is looking a bit grim.
I noticed many orders cost as much as or more for shipping than the actual wood order. I am running low on steamed pearwood so i contacted my supplier. The cost of the wood is $1,200.00 the cost of shipping is $850.00 this almost doubles my cost to restock. Plus on an avarage there is a 20% waste factor to figure in.
How much can the hobby take in jacked up costs before hobbyists start saying NO! i will not pay $1,250.00 for a model kit or NO! to 5 sheets of pearwood for $110.00 which 1/2 of that is shipping. Actually 70% of the cost is shipping because i had to pay outragious shipping to get it and then you the customer has to pay an outrageous amount to get the reswan wood.
Click to expand...
You make a very valid point about shipping costs Dave. I recently asked for a quote for 4 board feet of wood that worked out at about $80US. Shipping quoted at around $70US. I tried to also get an estimate from a source from the west coast of Canada and the shipping with Canada Post to the east works out to be even more, never mind courier costs.

Mind you shipping seems to be extraordinarily high for almost everything in the past few months.
 
This is a little off topic re costs, but in the past if I just needed a few items I was able to go to my local hobby store to buy them. These stores are disappearing fast and the few that are left don't stock much in the way of supplies. As a result, mail order is the only is the only option and shipping can be as much or more than the cost of what you are buying.
 
Dave,
I am not a business person like you, so you are more experienced at cost - shipping - profit margins and such. Things I really do not know much of, but common sense does dictate that the "cost" has to be absorbed by someone and as a business, that cost is passed on to the customer in order to keep the profit margin the same. So, it is a risk to increase your prices on your products (hoping) that your customers are willing to pay more. Have you calculated how much more the customer would have to pay (price increase)?
What would happen if you only bought HALF the amount of wood you need to keep shipping cost down - and still pass that increase to the customer which might not be that much since you are not buying that much pear?
Just some thoughts.
 
Recently, I learned a very valuable lesson. I did not check the shipping costs prior to setting the price of the Caldercraft HMS Victory. Had I done so, I would have either increased the price or have the buyer pay for the shipping. A $180 up and vanished, like a fart in the wind! :confused: :oops:
 
first of all to get a reasonable price you have to buy the entire boule that is one entire pearwood log resawn into slabs. The boule is 11 feet long x the widest slab 20 iches wide they will not break a boule it is all or nothing. I can buy smaller amounts but the cost goes way up.. Shipping cost also go up with smaller orders if someone like UPS is used rather than a trucking company. The cost ratio of wood and shipping is the same from small orders to large orders.
Passing the cost to the customer is the way it is done but there is only so much hike in prices before it is priced out of the market. Steamed Pearwood is an imported product pearwood that size does not grow in North America so cost is very high when compared to local timber like Cherry. Steamed pear cost from $18.00 to $22.00 a board foot Cherry cost from $1.00 to $3.00 a board foot. Both wood are very suitable for model building.
Black Cherry is expensive on the wast coast of North America on the east coast it is used for firewood.
plywood use to cost $18.00 a sheet now it is $70.00 a sheet
this hobby is not something you got to have like gas for your car or food if the costs get to hight people walk away from it.





pear2.JPG
 
This discussion of escalating costs that impact the hobby is more critical than we want to believe. When even a small quality kit is $150.00 average it impacts keeping the hobby alive. We all need to encourage new model ship building enthusiasts to the hobby but costs are becoming a key factor for keeping many away. Costs have driven the hobby out of the local hobby shop and into the internet stores. Now shipping costs become a major factor. I do not have a solution and Dave’s concern is spot on. The hobby is being kept alive by older modeler’s who have more disposable income. Thus we beg the question of how to bring younger modelers into the hobby as the next generation.
 
I have to weigh in on this. I recently ordered one of the Swan books from Seawatch. With the Canadian/American exchange the discount offered by the new owner was quite appealing. Out of the blue I received a notice from the shipper that $35 was owing on the order. I had already paid the shipping when I placed the order. I paid the additional $35 and my book was released from the book jail. It was delivered the next day. I questioned the supplier who advised that this was out of his control and was some sort of customs charge (tax). This book cost me a lot more that I planned on spending.
I also learned that shipping costs from the USA to Canada is literally mental. I can no longer justify doing this. Let’s say I order some small parts such as pins, grates and lanterns. The cost to get these to my door is about equal to or more than the parts.
I can get the same items from the UK for much less. Last weeks shipping cost from England came to $9 Canadian. That is more than reasonable. It has to come over the ocean and still is way cheaper than having it come from an adjoining country. 11 days from England was not bad at all.
Thanks. I love complaining!!!
 
$600.00 to over $1,000 for a decent kit is keeping many away from the hobby. That is expensive for a family man or a younger person to spend. This is a hobby for retired people with money or people like say my daughted with an income over $100,000.00 a year. Between her and her husband their income together they can afford expensive hobbies. They are not part of the young crowd my daughter is 50 years old.
If you do not have the power tools like a bandsaw, table saw, thickness sander, disk sander etc that will set you back big bucks. So you are stuck buying kits where everything is provided. The trend in kits is to provide top notch wood, instruction book, plans, fancy jigs, 3d printed parts, laser and CNC milling, a nice box well packed. All this adds to the cost of a kit.
One way to attract those that can not spend big bucks is going back to the basics and that is to scratch build.
 
I can get the same items from the UK for much less. Last weeks shipping cost from England came to $9 Canadian. That is more than reasonable. It has to come over the ocean and still is way cheaper than having it come from an adjoining country.

yup! that is odd i bought things off Ebay out of China from the other side of the world with $4.00 shipping same item 2 states away cost 3 times more for shipping.
 
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In my experience the most absurd shipping prices are from USA - and the highest rate of delays and "lost in the mail" too, but there maybe it's my bad luck. I ordered "Things" (not only wood-related) from everywhere, including Australia and Bali, but fares to Italy could be always explained with the distance and sometimes the object itself, if you buy a framed painting you espect to pay a lot: while I still remember 5 very small plastic connectors for a model 'copter canopy that requestd 25$ for shipping. And YES, they arrived after 20 days in a normal letter envelope, not even padded, from Ohio.
I am afraid that old-fashioned GREED is biting hard in all fields - even more than climate-change induced shortage of special woods...

@Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)
One way to attract those that can not spend big bucks is going back to the basics and that is to scratch build.
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I am not THAT sure. Some gratification is needed, expecially when you are a beginner. Scratch-building without a LONG experienc brings very easily to wasted time, wasted wood and ugly lumps of glue, and then it may not be what THAT would-be modeler is looking for. If I had the legit desire of covering my man's-cave walls with lots of "almost nice" ships made by my humble self I would go for beginner KITS.
It is not blasphemy...:eek: The real world and the real business, modelism included, need all levels of interest, experience and passion. I know that an Aventador Lamborghini is better than a Chevy Spark, but you do not obtain your driving license or maintain the automotive universe with Lambos...
 
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MY 10-CENTS(INFLATION) I TRY TO SAVE AS MUCH AS I CAN, IN SMALL WAYS, A LOT OF MICRO MART AND MODEL EXPO I CAN GET FROM AMOZAN FREE SHIPPING ALL MY ORDERS ARE +$25.00, ALSOLIKE DAVE SAID MUCH STUFF FROM CHINA THE SHIPPING IS MUCH LESS, SO TRY TO BY THERE, AS FOR KITS I SOMEWHAT AGREE I UINDERSTAND MANUFACTURERS WANT THERE MONEY IN TOTAL, BUT I SEE SOME KIT MAKERS TO GET THERE PRODUCTS TO MARKET QUICKLY IS TO SPLIT UP CHAPTERS LIKE IN 3 OR 4 PARTS, PEOPLE CAN AFFORD $300.00 TO $400.00 RATHERS THEN $2,700.00 AT ONE SHOT. CREATIVE MARKETING JUST MY 12 CENTS (INFLATION IN 2 HOURS. GOD BLESS STAY SAFE ALL DON
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
i do not know where this is going but the future is looking a bit grim.
I noticed many orders cost as much as or more for shipping than the actual wood order. I am running low on steamed pearwood so i contacted my supplier. The cost of the wood is $1,200.00 the cost of shipping is $850.00 this almost doubles my cost to restock. Plus on an avarage there is a 20% waste factor to figure in.
How much can the hobby take in jacked up costs before hobbyists start saying NO! i will not pay $1,250.00 for a model kit or NO! to 5 sheets of pearwood for $110.00 which 1/2 of that is shipping. Actually 70% of the cost is shipping because i had to pay outragious shipping to get it and then you the customer has to pay an outrageous amount to get the reswan wood.
Click to expand...
Steamed pear wood is much more expensive in the US than pear wood. There are many low-cost ways to steam wood for bending (YouTube). IF those methods will also change the color you can set up a steamer for $100 or so.
 
Interesting. Coming from the hobby of RC aircraft this is nothing new to me. When we started out, we built from plans. Some of us even built our own radios. Then as "Kits" became readily available we moved to kit building. Now it's become building from composite structures and purchasing ready to fly models.
You ask how to get younger people involved? Prices for radios are now $1000 and up and of course everyone wants the latest and greatest so we now move to turbine aircraft which can run up to $25,000 plus. So, unless you have a parent whose interest is the same, good luck little Johnny asking dad for that kind of expenditure.
The other problem is instant gratification. What young person (I'm sure there are exceptions) wants to spend the time necessary to complete a model. He's probably too busy on "Social media" anyway.

Well, that's my two cents worth. Of course, in today's world that's $200 :eek:
 
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Don Case said:
I'm awfully tight but I know that if I had to pay that much I would have never started this. I cut my own wood and did all the sawing myself. You need a small table saw, an even smaller hobby table saw and a thickness sander so if you are staring from scratch it may be a toss up between wood and tools. It's also extremely messy and noisy which leaves out a lot of people.
Shipping is becoming a real big issue and I don't see it getting better. A lot of places offer "free" shipping but mark my words, it's in there.
Click to expand...
ESPECIALLY fleabay 'free postage'!!! If you want to send an item back for refund they deduct the original postage - UUUHH? what happened to the 'free' p&p???:mad:
 
we have 2 groups in the hobby i think?

group 1

these are hobby people just interested in building a model. They do not care about the model being historicaly correct, they do not even care if the was an actual ship. It is more about the fun of the build and accomplishing a complex model. These are the hobby kit buiders and their range of kits go from cheap and simple to very expensive and complex. With 10s of thousands of ships and trypes the hobby kit is limited to just the kit subjects that sell. Profit by the manufacture is the main goal here, there is no bargaining, you either pay the price or walk away.
Any manufacture of kits buys the raw materials pays the cost + shipping then marks that up, He provides a servive by including instructions which you are being charged for, casting, printing, milling and cutting parts are included and you pay for someone to do all that. In the end the people who make the kits are middlemen making a profit. In the end these models are a facade, that is they look like a ship but are not how a ship is built.

group 2

these are the builders who have an interest in maritime history and tend to build historical correct models. The selection of subjects are as far as the eye can see. These builders have more of an interest in model engineering and "how" ships are built. This type of modeling takes years of knowledge, multi disciplines in research, woodworking, modeling, reading plans, metal working, casting, CAD design etc. it is intimidating plus builders do not have the tools. Scratch building is out of reach for the vast majority.

But what if

there was a web site/forum set up that offered a school in model ship building, they would have starter projects, a co-op of suppliers of rope, blocks, milled wood services. laser cutting services, how to prep drawing for laser cutting. 3D printing services everything you need. Rather than instructions there are free downloadable PDF files of " how to".
What is going on is eliminating the middleman kit manufacture because you are buying supplies direct, you are now the middleman.
I built a 3/8 scale model of the Tecumseth for $85.00

i remember seeing a post on another forum where someone wanted to get into model ship building and was told you HAVE to use boxwood or Swiss Pearwood no other wood will do. so i get an Email asking for a quote which was around $650.00 for Boxwood. WOW! that is expensive, But hey i can do the exact same thing in Beech, Maple or Cherry for $120.00. Exotic wood is fine but it is for the high end builders, you do not have to start with expensive material.

if the joy is in the build what's the difference in building a kit or building from scratch?
 
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