Wow, a 120ft main yard really puts its size into perspective.
Bill
Bill
I looked everywhere for a picture of the ship as she was originally. Since she was "original" for only a short time there are no photos to be found that I see. So I'm going by the record of her build in Crothers book and another book that was published by the Nautical Research Journal and sent to me back in 2003 by someone who had heard that I was interested in the ship. All that's missing here is the spar deck so it's hard to really notice that it's gone. The date was 1855 for this picture if I remember right and it's posted by the Smithsonian. They have several paintings of the ship but all are after the rebuild.
As for the sail arrangement I haven't progresses that far yet. Whether she had the Forbes or the Howes arrangement seems to be all speculation at this point. However if it shows one instead of the other in any picture of her then I would tend to believe what I see. She probably had both at one time or another. I think I'll stick with the written account of her construction since that's what I'm after here. The NRJ account of her dimensions seem to be the most complete.
Thanks for your comments Rob. I appreciate your info. Norgale
Rob is this photo of the lithograph available anywhere? I'd sure like to get an enlarged copy of it if possible. I can enlarge it on my monitor but it becomes too big for my printer. I can almost see the people on her deck and a lot of other details too. What a great picture to have. Perhaps the reason for more sail was her huge bulk. Had to take a lot of wind to get her moving. Also 'first hand account' could be from the short trip it was to first take from Boston to NYC which could have required reduced sail for such a short trip. Just thinking out loud. We'll never know now. Pete
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 477
- Points
- 268
Discriminating research requires one to distinguish attempts to mix and match details of her previous construction and that of her rebuild that Captn. Palmer visualized. Both paintings I provided....especially the first, clearly show that she was originally rigged with Forbes topsails. Forbes, even commented that his design was (In part) used on her but not the revers doubling structure...where the topgallant mast was rigged abaft the main mast doubling. The topmast was run up and down the topgallant doubling...that is why the doubling was extremely long, compared to the normal Howes design, which incorporated a fixed (Via crane) lower topsail and a mobile upper topsail.
There are NO images of her in her original state. However, there are several first hand accounts describing her original hull and rig. This is what I followed(Along with these paintings) .....that were created by artists who had some knowledge themselves.
Again...a discriminating eye can identify what painting is more likely accurate and the ones that are less. I've seen paintings that show her with Howes rig and weather deck railings(stanchions)... NEVER happened. I've seen paintings where she is flying skysails on all three masts...along with weather deck railings(stanchions). According to eye witnesses...NEVER happened. These same paintings depicting her with 6 sails reveal she had standard 80ft main yards.
These didn't occur until Captn. Palmer rerigged her in the Howes design...in essence reducing her sail area by 25%...and shortening her masts by 17ft. Palmer Just couldn't afford to return her to her original rig.
SIDE NOTE: The GR was built in 1853...McKay built many other clippers flying only Royals...and the Champion of the Seas only flew Topgallants, and she was built in 1854,
Eye witness accounts record her sail area as enormous and with 120ft main course yards....you can imagine (No need for skysails). My detailed research concludes this as indisputable.
However...to each his own.
Rob
There are NO images of her in her original state. However, there are several first hand accounts describing her original hull and rig. This is what I followed(Along with these paintings) .....that were created by artists who had some knowledge themselves.
Again...a discriminating eye can identify what painting is more likely accurate and the ones that are less. I've seen paintings that show her with Howes rig and weather deck railings(stanchions)... NEVER happened. I've seen paintings where she is flying skysails on all three masts...along with weather deck railings(stanchions). According to eye witnesses...NEVER happened. These same paintings depicting her with 6 sails reveal she had standard 80ft main yards.
These didn't occur until Captn. Palmer rerigged her in the Howes design...in essence reducing her sail area by 25%...and shortening her masts by 17ft. Palmer Just couldn't afford to return her to her original rig.
SIDE NOTE: The GR was built in 1853...McKay built many other clippers flying only Royals...and the Champion of the Seas only flew Topgallants, and she was built in 1854,
Eye witness accounts record her sail area as enormous and with 120ft main course yards....you can imagine (No need for skysails). My detailed research concludes this as indisputable.
However...to each his own.
Rob
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 477
- Points
- 268
I don't recall where I found this image....but it can be reproduced from here. As stated before, her great sail area came by way of her enormous yards(Largest ever put on a sailing vessel) the paintings you see of her after her rebuild...with skysails...actually show her with 25% less canvas to catch the wind...then when she was originally rigged. So more sails doesn't mean more wind capture. Captn Palmer(who rebuilt her), just couldn't reproduce the sail area she was originally built with...so he added the skysails to compensate for the diminished wind gathering ability. It was a matter of cost. 80ft yards compared to 120ft yards is a lot of construction and material cost. Not to mention he lowered the masts 17ft. And by reducing or removing her fourth deck...(her weather deck) and adding bullwarks....he reduced tons of weight...compensating for the loss in sail area.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 477
- Points
- 268
It was reported that, while being towed down to NY, her crew set only topsails and topgallants....and the GR began to over take and pass her tow. The first hand accounts say she handled extremely well and clipped along nicely due to her fast extreme clipper design. Attesting to the skill of her designer.
Rob
Sure glad that there's a 'however' there.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 477
- Points
- 268
That was added to keep it civil. Regardless of where the facts take you.
You build her the way you desire…….she’s a beautiful ship.
Rob
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 477
- Points
- 268
Some years ago a fellow built a large scale half exploded hull model of the Great Republic.
It's incredable that he made each and every one of those frames. They were only six inches apart on the real ship.
Got stuck on a few things this week so there's no progress to show you. I have plans of the stern, side, top and from aft but I'm having a time trying to see just how the framing is done. My plans aren't very clear. I also have to file or cut down the floor thickness at the keel so that the keelson will fit flat against the keel. Sent for a motor tool and some blades to help with that. Found a new tool company (new to me) called Vervor tools on line. All kinds of stuff there if ya want to check it out.
I also switched my internet from Century Link to Verizon. The change over was so simple and is only plug and play, went without a hitch. I figured something was wrong since there was nothing wrong. Cut $50 off my internet bill every month. If you can prove you're really poor you can get the Verizon for $35 too. I'm looking into that next.
Meantime I'm setting up a way to measure all the decks and sister timbers accurately so the decks will be straight. Not easy for this old man. With all curved frames from bow to stern it's hard to get it all straight and level and square against all curved sides.
Big plane crash down I-75 yesterday. Both engines quit at landing on a plane like the GulfStream exec jet and down he went on the highway. pickup truck when it landed on the truck but the driver was ok if you can imagine that. Plane hit a concrete sound barrier wall and tumbled down the high way about a quarter mile and exploded in a huge fiery ball. Plane parts were strewn all over the place including some homes on the other side of the wall and up in the air all over the place. When the plane came to a stop upright there was another huge fireball and three people walked away from the burning hulk to safety including what looked like a small child. This was on film taken by a motorist going in the opposite direction across the median strip. Looking at pictures of the plane today it's very hard to believe that anyone lived through that. Two people died as it was and I'm thinking it was the pilot and copilot of the rented plane. NTSB is here now investigating. You'll probably see this on the news nationwide tonight if not already there. The planes fly right over my house making their approach to the Naples airport. Pretty scary I think.
Just watched the Saturday night news at 11:00 Pm and I-75 southbound is still closed from the plane crash. Officials are still in the process of hauling the parts and debris away for the rest of the investigation. No reason for the crash has been determined yet.
I also switched my internet from Century Link to Verizon. The change over was so simple and is only plug and play, went without a hitch. I figured something was wrong since there was nothing wrong. Cut $50 off my internet bill every month. If you can prove you're really poor you can get the Verizon for $35 too. I'm looking into that next.
Meantime I'm setting up a way to measure all the decks and sister timbers accurately so the decks will be straight. Not easy for this old man. With all curved frames from bow to stern it's hard to get it all straight and level and square against all curved sides.
Big plane crash down I-75 yesterday. Both engines quit at landing on a plane like the GulfStream exec jet and down he went on the highway. pickup truck when it landed on the truck but the driver was ok if you can imagine that. Plane hit a concrete sound barrier wall and tumbled down the high way about a quarter mile and exploded in a huge fiery ball. Plane parts were strewn all over the place including some homes on the other side of the wall and up in the air all over the place. When the plane came to a stop upright there was another huge fireball and three people walked away from the burning hulk to safety including what looked like a small child. This was on film taken by a motorist going in the opposite direction across the median strip. Looking at pictures of the plane today it's very hard to believe that anyone lived through that. Two people died as it was and I'm thinking it was the pilot and copilot of the rented plane. NTSB is here now investigating. You'll probably see this on the news nationwide tonight if not already there. The planes fly right over my house making their approach to the Naples airport. Pretty scary I think.
Just watched the Saturday night news at 11:00 Pm and I-75 southbound is still closed from the plane crash. Officials are still in the process of hauling the parts and debris away for the rest of the investigation. No reason for the crash has been determined yet.
Last edited:
My moto tool has arrived and I've been using it to sand down the tops of the floors that stuck up over the top of the filler pieces between each frame, all of which sits on top of the keel. These floors had to be equal to the tops of the filler pieces so as to have a good seat for the keelson from stem to stern. So everything is nice and smooth and the keelson was glued down yesterday and set over night. Since the rest of the keel timbers, the sisters, are numerous, I decided to use some thin wood screws to hold the keelson tight to the floors and to the keel itself. This should stiffen the twist that is inherent with this type and size of construction along the whole axis of the keel. Without the ten sister timbers along the keel I doubt that this ship would have ever floated for long. She would have twisted herself to pieces in just about any but the calmest seas.
There will be some progress this week now that I'm getting the keel together and I couldn't do anything until that was accomplished. The rest of the basic hull construction depends on the completion of the reinforcing keel and sister timbers. Next will come the establishment of the plank sheer and the alignment of all the frames with it. At that point the hull should be ready for the start of the planking. Stay tuned and see what happens. Norgale
There will be some progress this week now that I'm getting the keel together and I couldn't do anything until that was accomplished. The rest of the basic hull construction depends on the completion of the reinforcing keel and sister timbers. Next will come the establishment of the plank sheer and the alignment of all the frames with it. At that point the hull should be ready for the start of the planking. Stay tuned and see what happens. Norgale
The moto tool worked great and I finished the keelson bed with a sanding stick the same width as the keelson. Nice smooth bed now and the keelson set right in there with no trouble. The rest of the sisters also fit right with a bit of sanding as the boat narrowed in the stem and stern. I used a lot of screws building this top keel and glued them together too. I hope nobody ever tries to take this thing apart sometime as that would destroy the whole ship. The model is very stiff now with more sisters to be added for the wing stanchions and then the planking. I was afraid it would be too limber and twist a lot but I can see now that this won't happen. One aspect of building a model like the real one is that of seeing and doing what the original plans called for. Give you an idea of what the shipwrights really went through to build something like it. Tried to get a side view of the whole ship but the room is too narrow and crowded to get far enough back. have to take it outside at some point for that.
This model will have 32 or 33 frames from stem to stern. Just imagine the huge bulk of the original GR with two more frames in between each of the frames on the model. The hull is like solid wood with over a 120 frames total and only 6" between each one. Robs picture of the half hull model above shows this very clearly if ya want to see.
This model will have 32 or 33 frames from stem to stern. Just imagine the huge bulk of the original GR with two more frames in between each of the frames on the model. The hull is like solid wood with over a 120 frames total and only 6" between each one. Robs picture of the half hull model above shows this very clearly if ya want to see.
Wow, looking great! Glad you were able to get a full hull shot without having to take her outside!
The room is looking like an industrial shipyard with trains and a ship under construction. All it needs now a big Gantry Crane!
The room is looking like an industrial shipyard with trains and a ship under construction. All it needs now a big Gantry Crane!
Hey, that's a great idea. I have a truck crane somewhere that my nephew gave me a long time ago. See if I can find it. Thanks for the comment Brad.
This will have to do for now.
What happened to all the rest of the thread readers? Used to have about 250.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 477
- Points
- 268
Waiting for some build log input. Crouds at the race track tend to wander till a race is afoot.
Rob
Never went to the race track except with my Grandfather. He owned the horses. Ha! I don't like inputting mistakes and this past week had several. However in the interest of learning something from my mistakes there will be some input today or tomorrow. I have two outside projects going right now and I want to get them finished before the summer heat gets here. I can only work outside during the winter.