The fluyt by Åke Rålamb 1691 – Dutch bottom-first graphically

In a quite fortunate coincidence, there is a wreck of a ship of (apparently) very similar architecture, and there is a 3D scan of this wreck:


1691217834121.png1691218427235.png 1691217963866.png


1691218049208.png
The very bottom is obscured by the mud, but we can see the details and geometry of bow and stern construction and the run of the planking on the stern. The planking under the wales on the bow is, unfortunately, obscured by marine growth, but is probably also diagonal.
 
Last edited:
.​

As if to illustrate, so to speak, and to verify the presented method on a concrete example, below is an additional diagram comparing the contours thus obtained to the contours of the frames on the original draught from Rålamb's work. In addition, an outer edge of the physical planking of the 'flat', as seen in the end-on view is also marked with a brown line. If this is a circle, delineating the equal width of this planking, then, apart from the aft section, it corresponds quite accurately to the geometrically correct actual width of the 'flat' on all frames.

It should also be added that the run of the hanging guide rails (green) in the vertical plane is perfectly straight, which is a dream circumstance for the eventual shipbuilder. Equally important, in the proposed method there is no need to calculate the cross-sectional radii of the 'flat' at all, and perfect, variable radius contours are obtained along all the length of the hull anyway.


View attachment 387905

.​
Hi Waldemar,

Allthough a boring ship for you :) your design on the ralamb drawings confirms the design of the fluyte. Ab mentions in his work that the shape of the futtocks is nearly the same over the length of the vessel, which you seem to find as well. This really confirm the simplicity of the design and helps to reduce the building time by just copying timbers across.

I have a very simple question for you. What is the function and how do you determine the hanging guide rail?
 
.​

Hello,

It is a very fortunate circumstance that both posts showed up at the same time, as the photos of the wreck shown by Martes are excellent material for comparison and for additional clarification.

The first point is that the lines as drawn on the (optionally made) plans were not necessarily the same as those achieved during the actual construction of the ship. This is more easily shown by the example of the line of greatest breadth (blue) or wales, which on the drawing are approximated on the sheer view by the arcs of a circle (because they are easier to draw), while in reality it would be the catenary line, obtained by hanging a rope between the cross-beams at both ends of the ship (because it is easier to obtain at actual scale). As it happens, with such large distances between the cross-beams, geometrically the two lines coincide almost perfectly.

* * *​

Now more interesting, because it concerns the most important line in perhaps any design concept – the line of the floor (green). The wreck shown by Martes reveals quite clearly that the ship's circular stern is raised higher than stern of the Rålamb's fluit, presumably to achieve better waterflow to the rudder and for overall better weatherliness, a lack of it being generally a weakness of boxy hulls. Of course, this was done at the expense of the ship's cargo capacity. A matter of choice.

In design terms, this was achieved by raising the line of the floor in this part of the hull, as shown in the diagram. The specific geometrical shape is of little importance here, as such a formal shape is primarily needed for the formalistic drawing of this line on the paper plan (optional and generally unnecessary in such simple methods). This line could just as well has been arc of a circle, ellipse, logarithmic curve or desired combinations of these. It is sufficient that this line should be such that it reflects the design intent (that is, in practice, higher or lower in the appropriate places).

In addition to adopting a specific curvature of this line, this was of course also adjustable by the height of the cross-beams. And here, too, there is a simplification, as the distance between the last frame (here #2) and the sternpost is irrelevant, although this section of this line was usually drawn on formalist plans. By omitting this unnecessary section in shipbuilding practice, the cross-beams could have been set lower, but more importantly, the curvature of the hanging guide rails did not have to be so extreme at this particular spot. This is also shown in the diagrams below.

I have also shown on the diagram the different shapes of the last frame #2, resulting from a different run of the line of the floor at the stern part of the hull.

* * *​

The same is true at the bow: a low position of the line of the floor translates into a full bow, more cargo capacity and less tendency to pitching, while a high position of this line translates into a sharper entry and better weatherliness. Again, the formal geometrical shape of this line is irrelevant, and Rålamb in his own description of the fluit only notes its typically low position for freighters, and not its specific geometrical shape, which could be anything suitable.

In addition to the (roughly) correct shapes, according to the rules described above, it was also desirable that the two hanging guide rails were fairly symmetrical. Otherwise, ships, for example, performed the turn more easily to one side and less well to the other side, or had to be asymmetrically ballasted, as is evident from a number of source accounts.


ViewCapture20230805_131923.jpg


ViewCapture20230805_132647.jpg


ViewCapture20230805_133008.jpg

.​
 
Last edited:
In a quite fortunate coincidence, there is a wreck of a ship of (apparently) very similar architecture, and there is a 3D scan of this wreck:


The very bottom is obscured by the mud, but we can see the details and geometry of bow and stern construction and the run of the planking on the stern. The planking under the wales on the bow is, unfortunately, obscured by marine growth, but is probably also diagonal.
The planking is not actually obscured by marine growth, it’s just the lower resolution of the model. I’ll see if I can find some photos from the actual wreck that have the planking on them. This fluit is very similar to one found in Sweden - see Eriksson & Rönnby 2012 “The Ghost Ship” article for drawings. However, this particular fluit type is a younger type (second half of 17th century, fitting well to the period of Ralamb’s book), we have also researched a fluit built in 1636 that is a proper Oostervaerder. One of the difference older fluits had was more pronounced tumblehomes resulting in even narrower decks. Adding it here just as a comparison to the younger fluits

StarBoard_1.jpg

Deck_Plan_1.jpg

Bow-1.jpg

Stern-2.jpg
 
.​
we have also researched a fluit built in 1636 that is a proper Oostervaerder

Oh my Goodness! Thank you for posting these graphics! It is so close to the defensionsskib by David Balfour I am keen to recreate in 3D (perhaps just hull lines). Where to find more on this unbelievably 'intact' wreck from 'my' period? Is it at all available for the public already? Just stunning!

.​
 
Did you mean comprehensible to small children like me? I think I have once again wandered into the advanced post graduate masterclass, and have a lot of catching up to do. A challenge to a seat of the pants, winchum- sqinchum, " Well...looks about right..." kind of artist like me. :rolleyes:

Pete
 
.​


Oh my Goodness! Thank you for posting these graphics! It is so close to the defensionsskib by David Balfour I am keen to recreate in 3D (perhaps just hull lines). Where to find more on this unbelievably 'intact' wreck from 'my' period? Is it at all available for the public already? Just stunning!

.​
We haven’t published anything about that wreck in scientific publications yet, that should be due around the end of the year. Some preliminary results from 2020 and 2021 fieldworks are available here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/362311602_A_17th_Century_Fluit_Wreck_in_Gulf_of_Finland
 
.​


Oh my Goodness! Thank you for posting these graphics! It is so close to the defensionsskib by David Balfour I am keen to recreate in 3D (perhaps just hull lines). Where to find more on this unbelievably 'intact' wreck from 'my' period? Is it at all available for the public already? Just stunning!

.​
Hi Waldemar,

The Ghostship is the one I am reconstructing. You can find the data in my thread.

 
.​

Naturally! I'm familiar with your log and I can see that you're showing some fantastic stuff there. However, the point is that the Ghost ship is a fluit from a later period, say, the second half of the century, featuring perfectly straight, parallel sides along almost the entire length of the hull (in top view), exactly as they are in Rålamb's fluit and boyer (1691), so much characteristic of a highly developed dedicated merchantmen.

In contrast, the 1630 defensionsskib and the 1636 fluit shown above still have convex sides in top view (and rounder hull ends as well). It is this particular feature that may also have a bearing on the possible variable curvature of the futtock and bilge sweeps, which begs to be checked on this 1636 wreck. Then, if confirmed, this distinct, earlier geometry could be described in the thread dedicated to the 1630 defensionsskib, which is practically nothing else than an armed fluit with slightly sharper than 'typical' hull lines.

.​
 
Last edited:
Hi Waldemar,

The Ghostship is the one I am reconstructing. You can find the data in my thread.

Honestly, I didn’t go through the whole thread… 16 pages was to much for tonight Anyway, just a hint (which you may have already noticed), the drawings of the Ghost Ship omit some features that are visible on the pics and video. Like the rectangular port openings identical to the Tallinn (yes, with two “n”’s, which is the proper way to write it - one “n” was introduced by russians ) fluit and not present on the Ghost Ship drawing. And these openings are not for loading long cargo as they open to main cabin. And there’s an actual hatch lower for that .
 
.​

Naturally! I'm familiar with your log and I can see that you're showing some fantastic stuff there. However, the point is that the Ghost ship is a fluit from a later period, say, the second half of the century, featuring perfectly straight, parallel sides along almost the entire length of the hull (in top view), exactly as they are in Rålamb's fluit and boyer (1691), so much characteristic of a highly developed dedicated merchantmen.

In contrast, the 1630 defensionsskib and the 1636 fluit shown above still have convex sides in top view (and rounder hull ends as well). It is this particular feature that may also have a bearing on the possible variable curvature of the futtock and bilge sweeps, which begs to be checked on this 1636 wreck. Then, if confirmed, this distinct, earlier geometry could be described in the thread dedicated to the 1630 defensionskib, which is practically nothing else than an armed fluit with slightly sharper than 'typical' hull lines.

.​
Mmm… this 1636 fluit we can only observe from the outside, for now Waldemar, I can provide you with all the data we have - just throw me a message at ivar [at] nautic (dot) ee
 
Honestly, I didn’t go through the whole thread… 16 pages was to much for tonight Anyway, just a hint (which you may have already noticed), the drawings of the Ghost Ship omit some features that are visible on the pics and video. Like the rectangular port openings identical to the Tallinn (yes, with two “n”’s, which is the proper way to write it - one “n” was introduced by russians ) fluit and not present on the Ghost Ship drawing. And these openings are not for loading long cargo as they open to main cabin. And there’s an actual hatch lower for that .
Hi lhv,

Yes I am aware of that. Actually as far as I know the Ghost ship has one loading port on SB side but on the Tallinn wreck I don t see these.
Is the Tallinn wreck a wood hauler or a grain carrier?

Niklas Eriksson also mentions that the Cabin ports could have been used for loading long items on to the Orlop deck which means there is a door between the cabin and the Orlop.

Do you have film and additional pictures available of the Ghost ship and Tallinn wreck?

See below some pictures via the site of the Estonian public heritage board.
269602460_4763306903707402_191894565470848099_n.jpg269929971_4763306930374066_1907496713015846347_n.jpg269477659_4763306920374067_3174668756030150987_n.jpg269693704_4763307167040709_1433309706873866343_n.jpg268950772_4763307430374016_2382241011690327093_n.jpg267121624_4763307467040679_8370780236880262844_n.jpg413210.jpg225354.jpg225355.jpg225352.jpg225351.jpg
 
Hi lhv,

Yes I am aware of that. Actually as far as I know the Ghost ship has one loading port on SB side but on the Tallinn wreck I don t see these.
Is the Tallinn wreck a wood hauler or a grain carrier?

Niklas Eriksson also mentions that the Cabin ports could have been used for loading long items on to the Orlop deck which means there is a door between the cabin and the Orlop.

Do you have film and additional pictures available of the Ghost ship and Tallinn wreck?

See below some pictures via the site of the Estonian public heritage board.
View attachment 388430View attachment 388431View attachment 388432View attachment 388433View attachment 388434View attachment 388435View attachment 388436View attachment 388437View attachment 388438View attachment 388439View attachment 388440
Ha, some of those are the pics we took on the first dive on that wreck back in 2013. And the top three are from ROV video from 2021. There’s been quite a lot of changes after 2013. Anyway, yes, she has the long cargo loading hatch on the port side, well below the rectangular openings. These, in fact, had covers that opened up (vertically) - you can see the notches for the hinges on the upper side of the openings. Inside the cabin there are two cannons. One still in its carriage. Could be related?

I don’t think that Tallinn fluit is specifically a grain or wood carrier (which doesn’t mean that she couldn’t take on a cargo of wood/grain if needed). The decoration pattern is too elaborate, the cannons (if they are not just signal guns) could indicate destinations outside the Baltic Sea. For example there was a salt trade from Setubal to Reval. There are some hints that the ship may have been built/owned by or frequently visited Lübeck. The research is still ongoing, but I hope to have an article out by the end of the year.

I have plenty of material about Tallinn fluit (which was probably called something to do with a tree - like Apple tree, Oak (tree) or something Biblical like the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil etc). All I have of the Ghost Ship are the drawings that Niklas has made and the photos from his and Johan Rönnby’s article
 
I do have some pictures of the Ghost ship video. But unfortunately don t have acces to the complete video, there seems to be 2,5 hrs of ROV video on the Ghost ship.
On one of these you can clearly see the PS side loading hatch.
In combination with the run of the planks.
Planking bow.jpgPlanking lower stern.jpgGhost ship stern planking.jpg
 
I do have some pictures of the Ghost ship video. But unfortunately don t have acces to the complete video, there seems to be 2,5 hrs of ROV video on the Ghost ship.
On one of these you can clearly see the PS side loading hatch.
In combination with the run of the planks.
View attachment 388441View attachment 388442View attachment 388443
Yeah, about the same size as on the Tallinn fluit, just on the other side. I have to check the run of the planks (I think it’s different), but that has to wait a bit as I’ll be away for the next week.
 
.​
Yeah, about the same size as on the Tallinn fluit, just on the other side. I have to check the run of the planks (I think it’s different), but that has to wait a bit as I’ll be away for the next week.

Ivar, it is extremely fortunate circumstance that you have looked here. So much previously unknown and fantastic information. Many thanks again and we look forward to your return.

.​
 
.​

A few more renders just to better show the shape peculiarities of the fluit of later type. In this case, apparently, the ship's payload was a priority, at the expense of the ship's sailing properties. It is hard to imagine an even more boxy hull than this one for the ocean-going ship of this period.

There is a huge anomaly in Rålamb's drawing, compared to the text description, of almost 2.5 feet. It relates to topsides, relatively unimportant to the design concept, so this has not been corrected to be coherent with the dimensions given in the description.


ViewCapture20230808_001255.jpg


ViewCapture20230808_001603.jpg


ViewCapture20230808_002556.jpg


ViewCapture20230808_004400.jpg


ViewCapture20230808_100936.jpg


ViewCapture20230808_101126.jpg

.​
 
Last edited:
.​

And then there are the two extant draughts of the fluits from the second half of the 17th century, coming from their country of origin, which together with Rålamb's drawing make an excellent set.

The quality of these drawings is unusually high in terms of draftsmanship for the period, but unlike Rålamb's draught they are desperately lacking in the most important conceptual elements of the design, namely the line of the floor, line of the breadth and the contours of the midship frame. To put it another way, they do not explicitly define the shape of the hull and it would have been impossible to build a ship with a well-defined geometry based on these draughts as they were drawn.

The second drawing below can probably be seen as a kind of preliminary, universal template for building ships of different sizes, but the most important design features in fact, translating into the final form of the hull (primarily the sharpness/fullness of its lines), already had to be individually chosen by the specific investor and shipwright anyway.

Both drawings were taken from Ab Hoving's publications: 17th century Dutch Merchant Ships and Seagoing Ships of the Netherlands [in:] The Heyday of Sail.


002.jpg


001.jpg

.​
 
Last edited:
Hi Waldemar,

On the top drawing there are most probably the dimensions given for the ship "bestek". On the right side of the left page you see a column.
If this is a bestek then a line of floor, line of breadth and the contours of the midship frame are not needed to build the ship in shell first.
The proportions of the lenght and maximum width enable you to draw the midshipframe and build the complete ship.

Offcourse the shape will be determined by the type of fluit you build a blunt or sharp hull.
 
.​
Hello again

Indeed, I guess that these illegible inscriptions on the Langedijk 1682 plan (top) contain the missing data, at least partially, but it is precisely my point that these key elements were not drawn, but at most expressed numerically in writing.

Well, bestek or no bestek, these three elements are absolutely necessary for a shipwright to build a ship in a planned and controlled way. They don't have to be written in bestek (which is, after all, simply a contract of a legal nature rather than a complete recipe for shipbuilding), although they are quite often included in an indirect way and usually only partially, depending on the level of detail of a bestek. The 'scheerstrook', which is in fact a physical equivalent of line of the greatest breadth on a plan, is a good example. Rålamb, for example, clearly and unambiguously gives the run of this line, both in text and in his draught. Or, the height of the tuck, quite mandatory in any detailed bestek, is nothing more than the height of the line of the floor aft.

If one simple length-to-breadth ratio would do the trick, then all ships would have identical midship frames, and, for example, specialised merchantmen, whalers etc. destined for different sea waters would be the same and also no different to warships or privateers of various types. I wish things were simpler, too, but even within a single ship type there were noticeable differences according to the specific purpose, even in the same period, let alone different decades. What I mean to say that many more or less detailed parameters of the planned ship had to be chosen individually, and not taken from just one 'obligatory", invariable proportion.

The sharp or round shapes of the ship do not come from chance or the will alone, but are precisely the result of prior thought and deliberate selection of these three key conceptual elements by the shipwright.

.​
 
Last edited:
Back
Top