That's the spirit Chris. Go for it!
Ab
Ab
Thanks a lot, Ab. I'll have to deal with the follow-up and have to face what my slim lady may look like then...
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This is a fascinating project, and I can relate to your careful low-tech approach! 
I am eagerly (If patiently) awaiting the results!
Pete
I am eagerly (If patiently) awaiting the results!
Pete
Hello Friends I did do it! By cutting the corner* I archived this:
And was able to insert another former - just by removing the cut out part on the masterplan towards stern and covering the gap by a slized sheet of paper:
and than adding the lines that were missing on my transplantate. But I do think about a slight repositionation of the second last stanchion:
Moving it towards stern so the round effect is kept alive.
What do you think about this surgery?
*and at first cutting my finger...
And was able to insert another former - just by removing the cut out part on the masterplan towards stern and covering the gap by a slized sheet of paper:
and than adding the lines that were missing on my transplantate. But I do think about a slight repositionation of the second last stanchion:
Moving it towards stern so the round effect is kept alive.
What do you think about this surgery?
*and at first cutting my finger...
Hy Pete,This is a fascinating project, and I can relate to your careful low-tech approach!
I am eagerly (If patiently) awaiting the results!
Pete
yes it is very "Low Tech" and I think it IS time to give a deeper View into my "Masterplan" with all the notes on it from stem to stern:
So you can easily scroll down through the drawing and the notes I made:
The metal "claw" infront of the stem ist pictured in the old photograph in the dock above and makes the distingushing of the nonrebuild boats quite easy in any front view.
The shape of the spear torpedo is very obviouse, too.
The spear apparatus itself is a feature I do have to deal with seperatly to catch all it's detail.
The hatch between the funnels is not seperated in two lids in the top view.
The square lids on the Boiler room's sides are the ventilation hatches into the firebox (I added the lids in this cut view) so they do their work letting less seawater in - perchance I could show them open if I am skilled enough:
The Colours are green for the CL-plate to be cut out and orange there is a fake engine top to be able to open some lids for a look inside from only one side:
Here we do see the very same mushroom vent named "72+71" that is shown in the Russian FORELL CLASS torpedo boats - as these were of French origin:
and here in more detail the part itself (both pictures are taken from the YGmodel in 1/100) showing it's interesting shape:
and how many parts are involved.
So it does figure out to be a good Idea to build French torpedo boat and French build Russian torpedo boats to the same time.
Here a stern view to STERLYAD showing further important detail as the handrail's netting:
and the asymetric placing of the flag pole - not to forget the sun sail that may Help to rescue my first crippeled deck's furniture...
Hopefully this short journey over my nasterplan was helpfull to give you some impressions of the work laying infront of me (and why building these beautyfull white
Russian torpedo boats may be a good way to learn on a French torpedo boat {if this sentence does make any sense}).
Thanks a lot for your patience, Pete, as I will only make little progress.
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Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the overview. These are going to be wonderful models of a truly unique and interesting class of boats. (In excess of 100 years old!)
Well worth the wait!
Pete
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Did I mention that these drawings of yours are beautiful?
Oh No Pete, yes the drawings are beautyfull - but they are not drawn by me! I only just enlarged them by 246% in a copyshop up to 1/72 scale and did do some silly doodlings into them!
Here you can see the resulting difference between bulkhead W11 of the Russian destroyer FORELL of 1898 in 1/64, admidst in 1/72, and the given LC-set in 1:100 I copied and enlarged from the YGmodel* by 13X% and 15X%
(and do think about enlarging this "redrawn" plan of AVANT GARDE in 1/72 by 112% up to 1/64). So these plans are Not drawn by myself - they do come from a book about international torpedo boat (and destroyer) development until 1914 called "Schwarze Gesellen" by Harald Fock (ISBN 3 7822 0193 0). The drawing is to be found on page 86 called "Sk 41" and as his source the author does give to us the French naval archiv...
....so there will hopefully be much more drawings and details in these original plans 130 years old.
Edit:
Back from the copy shop I rescaled it up to 1:64 to get more details out of the plan:
And the lengthening of the stern doesn't look too out of shape, doesn't it?
*This set does gives you a pair of boats FORELL and the late impression of the than renamed LOSOS as the beginning and ending of the given five boats class build between 1898 and 1903 - I do deal with them in the cardboard kit's section also here; and I will change the 2nd part (the build of AVANT GARDE in cardboard and other material) into this very section of the forum to keep thinks in order - leaving a link in here if I am able to do so.
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Due to the larger 1/64 scale this changed the length up to 690,937mms (some 27") and was able to cut out the CL-board to look for the right cardboard. I decided making the galley (without roof) an important part of the French hull - as Napoleon said:
"An army is marching on it's stomage."
Now she does look like the outline of an early u-boat.
But the good news is that CL(side) view and CWL(top) view do match:
"An army is marching on it's stomage."
Now she does look like the outline of an early u-boat.
But the good news is that CL(side) view and CWL(top) view do match:
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All very fascinating in an area of study I was hitherto unaware of. Thanks for grabbing my interest in a field new to me and giving me a fresh approach to preparing to create a model.
Hy Pete, that sounds great - early torpedo boats are a much neglected topic in modelbuilding and there are so many prototypes from such beautyfull lines and colourfull appearance that are all worth to be aware of again by being build!
Some are technically of much intrest as the Russian KIT*
with it's engine between the boilers:
stationared in the Baltic Sea and by this coloured in midnight blue/black and white with yellow funnels lovely as build by a Croation colleauge:
They are relatives to the French ARQUEBUSE class
torpedo boats - of whom I found some drawings:
and some pictures of her later appearing with an electric signalling tool behind her last left mast:
in both pictures the seperated galley/grating deck over the hull is clearly visible - making her much more complex to build than KIT with it's single deck:
As this class is very huge here only SABRE to visialusize the veryinteresting storing of the sun sail.
EDIT...here the FRENCH torpedo boat FLAMBERGE as an other example for the very same "shaft-under-aft-boiler solution" as shown in the drawings of the Russian KIT built by Schichau Danzig:
...and MOUSQUET-Bougault:
I do have got no idea if the French or the Germans were first into this complex design or If both developed the same solution into the very same problem paralleely (but I do admid to prefere the French boats as I do love their elaborated masting and rigging).
______
* available by Dom Bumagi 04/2009 scaled in 1/200 (Loa 317mms) with (Barrel?), LC, and PEset offered by Kartonmodellbaushop.de
as KIT "whale" and in her later life painted greygreen over all as BEZSZUMNYJ "the soundless(m)" both boats with a simple single masted rigg** - there was also a white Pacific coloursheme:
**Here earlyer Russian torpedo boat concepts with sails in case you would like to start by scatchbuilding immediadly (still searching for his name I do think they are German yard' build):
An astonishing plenty of canvas on a single torpedo boat looking top heavy in rain:
Here BATUM with his interesting torpedo crane:
Sorry for tresspassing you deeper and deeper into elderly torpedo boats... ;-)
Sorry, folks,for getting aaaa liiiiiittttlllleeee bit off-topic.
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The torpedo boat with sails has a reeeeeelly Jules Verne look! Also they suggest the look of the early U-Boats. I wonder if there was some design crossover going on there. Endlessly fascinating. And very fantastical! Thanks for all the pictures and bringing me into the loop.
Pete
Thanks for all the pictures and bringing me into the loop.Pete
Pete, you are very welcome in the peer group of modelling madYESs...The torpedo boat with sails has a reeeeeelly Jules Verne look! Also they suggest the look of the early U-Boats. I wonder if there was some design crossover going on there. Endlessly fascinating. And very fantastical!
Pete
Here a few more baits of pictures of Lieutenant BURAKOW 1900 avaible as resine kit by KomBrig in 1/350
and the built kit for your wife's first imagination as the model may look in the living room:
Most modellers' experience is to stay with one scale - so all your boats are comparable to another (as I do not do with FORELL to figure out my mostly beloved scale at 1st) and it is a good hint to start with a small prototyp (to ignite your wife's intrest and burn down her fears). The time periode we are dealing with is a quarter of a century (1880-1905) with thousands of torpedo boats* of different ship yards, design phisolophies, and operational needs influencing the layout.
There is phantastic literature with drawings and sources about LT. BURAKOW by N.N.Aphonin
(my reason to start to learn Russian language). If you did like tank building in your younger years you can show this skill to public by trying this green-grey appearance of him in a habour scene of 1904/05:
When you switch off at Google search the automatic translation and copy the cyrillic words "Лейтенант Бураков 1899" into your search line you do enter a complete different world of sources...
Here a picture of LT. BURAKOW while in her speed trials in the Western Baltic Sea near Elbing - still under the black-white-red German civil flag of the ship yard at Schichau - only possible for me to be found on Russian page in a forum as the boats were first Chinese boats batch delivery as:
HAI LONG, HAI QING, and HAI XI to the Imperial Chinese Navy 1900 they did come into Russian hands.
The boats we do deal in this 25 years with are 25/30ms (27/33yard) to 65/70ms (67/73yards) arround 80ms or 84yards for the last torpedo gun boats long. And due to this any scale of 1/48, 1/64, or 1/72 or even 1/96 is possible to build your boat; even 1:24 for RC or 1/350 to 1/700 for tablet top is a given possibility. Please have a look on your living conditions when choosing your scale as the may fit in your book shelf or in front of a window (please turn the case from time to time due to sun light effects of the colour). Even in a caravan trailer is enough space for your hobby - a friend of mine used his as modelshipyard (in the beginning hidden to his family). Some of us do build in their hotel's room or the army barracks. Your hobby may need the space of a simple drawer - your "output in display" the space of a shoebox. In the very beginning...
Here LT. BARKOW's very sharp lines are obviouse as he was on the rocks - such pictures are very helpfull to get an idea of the deck's furniture and hull's shape.
If your wife recognized you as a satisfied, calm, and happy modelshipbuilder she will accept bigger boats - and you can give her something to decorate the house with - producing a win/win solution...
SY ROSS WINANS 1866 (Klick Here) you both may look over designs together, fascinated by
extravagant cigar shaped luxury steam yachts of an
incredible impressive shape for a good price with her (my wife started by this modelbuilding in her own** and stays with sail and wood).
Hth
*You may prolonge your list it by taking the pure spear torpedoboats like HMS DEFENDER
and the Confederated Navy's C.S.S.DAVID of 1864 into account or adding later torpedogunboats like HMS SPEEDY standing apart from other sister boats of the RN's Alarm class from the 1890th by her third funnel:
A very outstanding slim 70ms/270ft beauty in nice coulour sheme:
Here above the original yard model of her sister JASON or as built:
Hopefully these does give you some ideas and if your wife says "no" than it is always worth to discuss a live steam RMS TITANIC in 1'=1" (1:12) as the one and only acceptable alternative for a bunch of small torpedo boats instead...
**making her become much more tolerant against my ideas.
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Thanks. I appreciate all the pictures of the amazing boats I never knew existed. Right now, my very patient and appreciative wife, has graciously turned all our available wall and display space to what amounts to the Peter Gutterman Memorial Art Gallery and Museum of Marine Models. We're running out of room!
I'll send pics along and you'll see what I mean.
Pete
I'll send pics along and you'll see what I mean.
Pete
I do highly like to see those Pictures...
Yesterday I did a little bit of Work to the 1/64 version and do start to get a very first former lines plan over this weekend:
So a little bit of progress here and there
So a little bit of progress here and there
Hello friends, the "progress does start between our ears". So I restarted by simple geometrical techniques:
And worked towards a solution to use the few lines I do have got in my drawings:
I do have got
a)
the center board (Green - analog to my coloured drawings)
b)
the outline of the deck (Red) giving a very sharp point to the former/bulkhead
c)
the waterline is also available so I did this by adding a pair of bars to slot in the CLW pice (blue).
Any suggestion from the more expierenced ones?
Hope you do like this, Christian
And worked towards a solution to use the few lines I do have got in my drawings:
I do have got
a)
the center board (Green - analog to my coloured drawings)
b)
the outline of the deck (Red) giving a very sharp point to the former/bulkhead
c)
the waterline is also available so I did this by adding a pair of bars to slot in the CLW pice (blue).
Any suggestion from the more expierenced ones?
Hope you do like this, Christian
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I always like your drawings. Little works of art in themselves and very instructive. I like the comment "progress begins between our ears." If only the World, writ large, would learn this lesson! 
Hello friends, there is a little progress drawing the layer of the deck in red and the WL in full length in black:
The measurements are identical:
Next step is to figure out the bulkheads in between.
Have a great day!
The measurements are identical:
Next step is to figure out the bulkheads in between.
Have a great day!
Dear friends, I do think I was able to figur out the error in the planset of the book I took it from:
What I looked at only singulary the all are well done and the measurements are correct,
but the conclusions seeing them all together
makes the side view cut obviouse to be displaced three millimeters to the front!
So I will have to rearrange the drawings in a propper order...
Due the huge ammount of detail on the whaledeck's crowded tip I didn't recognized the offset (German "Versatz") in the drawing:
...stupid thing not to have seen this before, as I concentrated to the details too much!
Thanks a lot for your patience.
What I looked at only singulary the all are well done and the measurements are correct,
but the conclusions seeing them all together
makes the side view cut obviouse to be displaced three millimeters to the front!
So I will have to rearrange the drawings in a propper order...
Due the huge ammount of detail on the whaledeck's crowded tip I didn't recognized the offset (German "Versatz") in the drawing:
...stupid thing not to have seen this before, as I concentrated to the details too much!
Thanks a lot for your patience.
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