The FORELL Quartett in four Scales

[Iterum]

THE RUSSIAN FORELL-QUARTETT

Dear friends, after illness I am back. Disabled - but undead. So I had to start with a limited project of a Russian torpedo boat of the Buijini FORELL class:



So the whaledeck is an impressive feature of this kit:



The 3D drawings are very helpfull as the text ist written not only in kyrillic letters but also in Russian, too...

Above - as the deck is constructed as with a Rennicance galley - atop of the enclosed floating corpus - it is a number of grills asdeck:

I am still looking for a four edge micro drill to open the little holes...



...and the helmsman's wheel does look horribly complex to me.

As the kit does bear four paper models inside in Pacific fleet's peace white and camouflage green I can step up the ladder of progress ship by ship.

Not a single food in length it is quite a tiny task.


Here the only sides I will build and start with LOSOS.

EDIT ON 07.XI.'22:
Due to many circumstances with the 1/200 Dom Bumagi kit (returning it twice due to colour failiure in printing) I decided to pick out the YGmodel's 1/100 starting with him (in Russian language torpedo boats seem to be male). So I will go into progress more slowly, something like step by step, and by this making a begin - beside the work for more details of the French AVANT GARDE in the research section for a scratch build after Ab Hoving's great tutorial.
So in this thread will be a number of FORELLs differing in scale:
YGmodel's 1:100,
Dom Bumagi's 1:200
YGmodels copied upto 1/72
YGmodels copied upto 1/64

Some kind of "FORELL Quartett" So let's start!

 

[Uwek]

Good luck with the new project ..... hope to see more of the project

 

[Iterum]

Sorry for you to wait here for a beginning of a kind of start,


but again the underwater colouring isn't well printed on LOSOS' cardboard. So this will be returned (again) and by frustration I ordered the YG-model in 1:100. The model seems to be very similar to the Dom Bumagi's layout of the sheets but doubled in size. So ist may not be to easy to figure out some completly new way of designing a torpedoboat to become a model.


I enlarged the model up to a bigger scale 1:72 up to a length of 786,111mms by 139%. As it looked a bit "small"

to me (in particular the opening in the grating**). I decided to put my hand deeper into my pocket and ordered an 156% enlargement to reach the scale of 1:64 reaching some sufficient 884,375mms*.
The YGmodel suggest a wooden grating I do think:

But why is there no propper wooden frame around the Part 9-I bordering the grating?

So this weekend I will try to find some hours to start with FORELL (as LOSOS differs in some details in particular in a spectecular big additiv vent between the first and second funnel she will be build later; I have to figure out what were the differences between the boats of this quartett in detail).

_______
*But with 208% to enter 1:48 I would have had 1.197,167 mms and copying cost beyond the price of a dozend paper models so I refused to invest that much money and fill such much space.
**Does anybody know if they were grey-/ironcast or wooden? From this pictures I cannot decide for one option.

 

[Iterum]

@Uwek Dear Uwe, should I take out the scale in the top line and put all the four models (1:200-1:100-1:72-1:64) in here all together or is it better do not to differenciate these builds by scale and keep an eye into kitbased building or direct kitbuild? Here the kyrillic letters of FOREL' that do need a small shadow lining as they were originally raised from by riviting them onto the hull:



Edit due to clearyfication: Here a picture of the 1:64, 1:72,and 1:100 bulkhead W11(top to bottom) side by side to show the different sizes:

So the LC-card I already got with the YG-modell. The "bigger fishes" do need a 2,9 and 3,5mms card as an propper underlay. So this pair of 1/200 and 1/100 and the "semikits" in 1/72 and 1/64 will force me in more and more invest into detail work. Without CAD and 3D-printing I will try to survive and to go foreward - as far as possible.

The scratchbuild AVANT-GARDE will only win from these experiences.

 

[kartonskipper]

Moin Chris,
nice you start here with a Dom Bumagi cardmodel; I have a great liking for this brand; I wish you sharp scissor and a calm hand ...
regards
Wil

 

[Iterum]

Thank you very much Will, following Captains Slag's YouTube Channel (Plunging Fire Scale Modelling) I had to realize it is best to testfit every pice as in his ADMIRAL NAKHIMOV had in both (the LC-cut frames as the pattern to cut out after glued on cardboard) the very same error. Mismatching slots in construction... So I will scan the hole parts for disalinements first - when my booklet in 1/200 does come return.

 

[Iterum]

Here it is very obviouse that

FORELL is a spin off of the French PIQUE with her doubled funnels and boilers:





Here the galley-deck is well pictured.

 

[Iterum]

FORELL 1898
orig.YGmodel kit 1/100
Prologue
Due to four "quite" similar looking boats in four different scales I do deal with I will

1.)
announce on the top line (as often as I do not forget about it by my 4th stroke) what model, scale, and name we are dealing with.

2.)
All the boats will be shown before renaming in march of 1903 and by this in her non-camouflage time.

So there will be no towohabohu in here and my builds...

... hopefully!


As I do think to build in my biggest scale 1/64 bringing him up to a length of 884,375mms (or nearly 34-3/12" for our imperal guys... I try to remember about you!). So by this

STERLYAD will be build from the enlarged YGmodel's sheets copies if I am able to figure out the differences in detail to proof it is him.
End of Prologue


THE ORIGINAL FORELL KIT 1/100:
So here we are, I will show the beautyfull white FORELL to you in it's plan sheets in detail:


Progress is slowing down:


...and stopped completly:

...for now!

ONE HOUR LATER...​

So here we are the sheets do look like this:


I do very much like how the coulour of the props backsides is shaped:


Here the yellow funnels and the boats:


The LCparts do fit to the templates very well - and two of them are to be glued on top of each other:


Here the cut out rests of the LC-parts will be sanded into shape later. Do I need to harden them by superglue? As I have to bevel the sterm sector very much I would like to listen to your consult:


I glued three sheets of millimeters' paper into a row to give a better understanding of the real size of the parts to you (and I promised I will find my imperial ruler for the inch-guys with us).

This is today's progress' edit. I do hope you do like it.

Don't hesitate to ask questions or give tips to my build before I do ruin everything.

 

[kartonskipper]

Chris,
I see you get inspected and observed by the fleetmaster .. I hope for you that your work was precisingly to the according of the catshipyard-company?! For me its always amazing to see such tiny ships - like the Russian Torpellier - can cross the Ocean - smile. By the way I bought the YG Minesweeper in Scale 1:50 ... should be a nice project in the future?
Kind regards
Wil

 

[Iterum]

Hy Wil, when your some 38ts of coal are eaten up by the hungry boilers you should have a bit of canvas aboard to cross the rest of the ocean

Here s RN boat giving half of HMS VICTORY's sails aboard...

YGmodels in 1/50 wow... What a project - sized as a baseball bat! What an astonishing thing to build... Yes, Wil, just start to present the kit, the extra parts, and your thoughts to make it an astonishing (live steam RC?) model. We need more paper contend! Not everyone is able to invest ten thousands of bucks into boxwood, gold, machinery and plans... Not every man has space to place the 34,656th RMS TITANIC from Trumpeter into his flat. Not everygirl has the patience to work for five to ten years on a single project. So it would be fair to offer an alternative to become a privat shipowner in scale...
Go for it, Wil, Show the kit to us!


btw the fleet master has blocked my workplace tonight. So I do blame the leck of progress onto her:

And as other do have got cat in their CV-hulls... Is this only for presentation issiues or are you able to use your workshop while the great admiral is in the same room with you? And how to safe the all the bits and pices build under the "electrofratic microscope" from her ever playing claws?
...and slithering tail?
Certai' asking for a friend...

And what about family bulls?

The tiny "George" is joining us in holidays for years...

Thank you very much.

 

[Iterum]

LITERALLY MADE PROGESS FOR ALL SCALES

Hello friends, it is interesting that sometimes wishes do become reality. Yesterday I got my print out version of the "French Torpilleurs in Russian Fleet" and finally got access to my paperwork this evening:


So I could take some pictures for you showing the drawings that are important for all four models:

The book is written in Russian and does not only deal with FOREL' class boats by mister N.N.Aphonin (Afonin?):

...but also with the boats of OSETY and LIEUTENANT BUKAROW (II) class in detail.

So let's start...

In what are impressive reproductions of drawings (and these particular sides were printed in A3 to me) so I do have got a lot of work to do as on the 25.XI. is FOREL' s 123rd birtday:

Hopefully untill her 125th jubilee I will be able to present a finished kit.


The book had had to be printed out from data as it is impossible to get anything printed shipped to Germany recently (as our govermental braindeads were also able to empty the shelfs even in our foodstores from milk and our pharmacies from important medication - even antidepressiva... how to trust a system where even the basics aren't managed propperly) to me from mother Russia!

THE SUNSAILS
Interestingly all the sunsails do look like wightless flying over the deck:

so I do have to Unterstand the way of rigging propperly:


The A3 printed drawings above're absolutely great:
...even the small folded boat is shown:

...as therein is a plan of the sunsails and it's magnificent fixing to the deck without much stanchions:


and ther French "quatersister" ARQUEBUSE showing the Beauty of this "free leveling canvas" to us:

A original sister in the French navy is the four boats ÉPÉE class:

of whom only the pair of boats YATAGAN and ÉPÉE were not sunk by their own navy - above here the last one (in her later live with a second mast errected for the wireless communication).
So I will to a good bunch of research in this four French boats, too. To figure out further important detail - hopefully...

THE LINES
In the book all the notes to the pictures are also written in English:

Here the bow part of the waterlines':

...and the stern part that is very fine drawn, too. For all the guys that do want to build a nicely detailled 1'=1'' livesteamer in RC:

But I didn't understand why the lines in the original lines' drawing were interrupted:


Does anybody know something about this "feature"?
...and how to deal with the cut at any scratch built hull for a model?


LANGUAGE
The booklet I ordered to learn Russian showed up to be an introduction to a hole series of learning-, reading, and workbooks. I will have to purchase after one another. So step by step it is going to fill my next shelf...


THE 1/72 DECISION
The 1:72 model will be altered to the later model of FOREL' class - distinguished by an extra big ventilation between/beside the pair of funnels - instead of mushroom vents on her older sisters:

I try to show to impact of the changed vent - and I am unable to turn the picture by 90° to the right - sorry for this!

LOSOS' does show this feature on the right:

So by this kit I can build LOSOS' also in her first white livery...
...uppps!



IS WHITE REALY RIGHT?
But the question is if it was white - as I found a picture of a model of ADMIRAL GREIG in a very light blue painting:

So there is my question if all the nice "white" we are so used to in history wasn't a very light blue instead? As we did say Adieu towards a deepblue and overall golden SOLELY ROYAL since Marc showed up in here with some historically based realism in vermillion red...

So we will see what is going on tomorrow in my "CardYard" - I do plan to deal with the YGmodell's kit* to compare the next pices of the LCcut parts to the pattern for the cut outs before doubling these to the correct strength...

______
* What a mess'll start when I do build the Dom Bumagi's 1/200 kit of KIT'
(what just does mean "Whale" at all) but will bring up a lot of jokes'n'fun in the articles about this small Russian torpedo boat I do hope.

 

[Iterum]

...this night I searched the web for the YGmodel FOREL' and LOSOS' and couldn't find any finished building report talking about helpfull details in particular. Neither in the very informative www.only-paper.ru in Russian nor in the very well suited Polish languaged forums was anything to read about this paper kit.

I did find something very interesting about a 1:100 Scratch and 3Dprinted model of LIEUTENANT BUKAROW (II) in a Well known French forum:
KLICK -> modelisme-noval-bois

build by Mr.Mallet...


...with astonishing photo etched parts made by the author...

...giving some very good idea of the resulting size of the model to me:


and that 1:100 is a very well possible scale to scratch build in in cardboard and "all the rest"; like masking tape for the plating lines:

So the given plans and surviving pictures are enough soil to plant your model on it.

So it is a further push of motivation to me.

 

[Iterum]

THE YG-MODEL FOREL' 1:100 Kit:

Hello friends of the card riveted TBs!

Today I figured out that the YGmodel's and Dom Bumagi's kits are (beside scale) very similar - even until the parts' numbering:


above the YGmodel's manual below is placed the Dom Bumagi's. What makes the DB's kit standing out is the double sided colourfull printing on the backside many sheets.

Then I figured out that all the slots for the formers/bulkheads do fit to the CentralLine's plate:

here my improvised card yard and the knife I did use to seperating the parts from the LC framing:


The kit forces you to double the LCparts' thickness:

Here the CenterLine's longitudinal bulkhead in all it's length and beauty:


...giving a very good idea of the slim shape of the boat's hull to us.

Here my beloved whaledeck in detail with all

the neccessairy bits&pices for a fine model to show (in the lower left corner the vent for the last two boats of this series).
Here a water colour of a whale deck of the RN's boat ARIEL; showing the interesting fact that spills may/could have been of admirality bronze?

...and the chain is very rusty and the port side's red light and panel red are very shiny indeed.

 

[Iterum]

Happy Birthday, FOREL'!

Our white Dame is celebrating her
rd Jubilee just today!​

Launched on the 25.XI.1900​

​

​

 

[Iterum]

Today I tested the LCparts' tolerances on the centralline and they were really huge: some 1/10 of a millimeters and I do not know it the spaced or narrow version is the right one:

So I do think I have to go with the horizontal/WL-parts as a reference I do think, isn't it

 

[kartonskipper]

Hello Chris,
These small differences can have many causes; one must not forget that this Finnish wooden board is very susceptible to humidity; and when cutting with the laser, it depends on the quality of the laser and the corresponding gas; most burn through the parts just like that and that can be seen in tolerances, often the reverse side is also a good comparison for accuracy of fit. I don't trust any laser cut, unless it comes from Halinski
Take the waterline as a reference or use the deck as a base, because the hull segments will be attached to it afterwards ...
Keep it gluein
Wil

 

[Iterum]

Hello Chris,
These small differences can have many causes; one must not forget that this Finnish wooden board is very susceptible to humidity; and when cutting with the laser, it depends on the quality of the laser and the corresponding gas; most burn through the parts just like that and that can be seen in tolerances, often the reverse side is also a good comparison for accuracy of fit. I don't trust any laser cut, unless it comes from Halinski
Take the waterline as a reference or use the deck as a base, because the hull segments will be attached to it afterwards ...
Keep it gluein
Wil

Thanks Wil, your words are very helpfull to me and so I did start to tryfit my LCparts and they did press any inconsistencies away so nothing about this anymore - but I will have to protect them from moistre by adding some layers of spray colour after dissasembling the skelleton's parts.
@kartonskipper
Do you have got any suggestion what product to use or is a usual car's primer (in several thin layers certainly) good to give it a go?

So let us go through my weekend in the CardYard; beginning by cutting out the card bulkheads - but not sanding them in beveled form:
As they are doublelayered I decided to leave the cut off ends from the framing onto them as I can also sand them away while beveling the hull's shape at all. Your advice about the problems with the LC is something I will keep in mind and than closing this sanded openings again. And I will add the CWL onto the parts.

Getting the CLboard and bulkheads sticked together without glueing them I add the WL by the horizontal layers and I am again falling in love to her beautyfull lines:



Then I managed to get the WLboards into the bulkheads' slots finally:



Giving a first impression to us about her astonishing size and breathtaking lines:



I did turn her upsidedown (also for our Australia members, too) but to show the great round hull of the fore and after part of the under water hull:



The next pictures should hopefully does give some idea to us how sharp the beveling of the bow will have to be and how complex the riviting around there will be to imitate:and I again will do have a good look onto Captain Slug's YT-video about ADMIRAL NAKHIMOV where he beveled the backbone of the Russian cruiser to fit with the hull's shape by copying the ram's lines onto the CLboard. I will also have not to forget to bevel the top for the whaledeck into the backbone's upper side, towards the very tip of it - aiming for strict parallelity of the lines on port and starboard alike:
Same certainly will be done to the stern's bulkheads.
I do think about filling the space between the bulkheads by adding cardboard piles inthere to get a completly enclosed hull surface available to be sanded:


By this it is possible to get a correct hull shape as "1st planking" (the piled card fillers) to add the "2nd planking" onto it easier and much more percise lines:

What I do have to deal with as a complelx feature is the rectangular keel under the hull. I do think will have to add it to the kit - as far as I have seen this important, characteristic item seems to be neglected on this kit but obviously in the lines plan makes it very visible:




Than I figured out I should had to have a pair of turned brass stands in my collection and was able to locate them on their rough position - forgetting in my enthusiasm about the rule of parallelity of stand's surface and CWL in modelshipbuilding:

Sorry for this!

But untill my next weekend I can store the hull's skeletton savely high on a cupboard's very top - far far far away from the dangerously playing cat...

So this was my weekend's short report to the FOREL' and a bit of progress during this week there is hopefully time in hospital to deal with ZOBOL's drawings a bit more, to get some progress in there.

Best wishes from Berlin's CardYard.

 

[Iterum]

Dear friends, I have gone through my collection of pictures and found this picture of a French* "torpilleur" during/after (re-?)painting:

Clearly to see is that the white hull and the dark underwater antifouliage paint are seperated from each other by a "greyish" area - is this a colour I forgot or never heard about?
Or is this "Grey" the basis of the antifouling colour? Or is it the primer of the white?
Are there any suggestion from our specialists?

Thank you very much.

* French torpilleur does wear a name's plate onto the hull:



So here FOREL' shows a black winged eagle with other elaborated colours in drydock:


Russian boats did have (brass?) letters riveted on the hull here STERLYAD' :


the czar's doubleheaded eagle was risen even more:




editP.S.:
And at last a picture of the shape of the French nameplates with it characteristic outlines:

 

[Iterum]

Here my plan to work on the beveling of the stem by using a pair of compasses (doodling above) and trying a puncture along the tangent:


in cut dawing:
Black: LC-board
Grit: cardboard filling
18: slot for bulkhead W18

As I can still seperate the CLboards it is easier to be done as withnthe possibility to sand too much and onto the wrong side...

 

[Iterum]

FOREL' YGmodels 1:100

BUILDING A BRENCH STAND

These are short notes not to forget about:

AA. AUSSY BUILDING BOARD
keep the LC-CL-board straight by a building board with a straight line on it and a number of rectangular stands/stanchions in the Bulkhead/CL-board's edged - hull upside down.

AB. IMPLEMENTING NUTS
Placing the nuts for the finished stand's screws in the right angle into hull: 180°/0° towards the CWL.
Distances placed after the Golden Rule of design.

AC. DESIGNING AN ART NOUVEAU STAND
Looking for prototypical stands and lamps from the XIX/XXth century change.


B. PROTECTIVE STAND
Bringing the hull onto a building stand (by copying a lot of the formers outlines) and laying/glueing soft material into it.

C. MOORING PLACE
Figure out a place where to "moore" the TB on it's stand protected from moistre, dust, and cat.