Soleil Royal 1669 by Oliveras P. in Navios - planset information
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This is fun.
My firts guess would be Douphin Royal 1668. But in details are differences. The two figures under first balcony are too large and it lacks to figures at the sides top part of stern. Also it took part in the Battle of Beachy Head, so no Spanish traces
I didn't take your suggestion(bait) in file description as it could be Royal Luis, as it has longer balconies similar to Dutch ships and much more figures
I digged little deeper in your file. Mabe it coulde be Douphin Royal after refit. They share some similarities but difference is too big
Oh it's getting hot. Royal Louis 1692. Many many similarities, especialy when we considered you called the file Royal Louis. As it was with DR 1668 it lacks figures
What I think it may be is The 104-gun Foudroyant of 1693.
Firstly almost perfect alining of stern decorations. Second it took part in action off Vélez-Málaga in 1707, so we have a trace of Spanish forces involved. I have no idea how they manged to put that flag on vessel. If I remember correctly English putted theirs above the captured ship. How Spanish flag menaged to be on french vesell is question to you
Do we play more or is it bingo?
My firts guess would be Douphin Royal 1668. But in details are differences. The two figures under first balcony are too large and it lacks to figures at the sides top part of stern. Also it took part in the Battle of Beachy Head, so no Spanish traces
I didn't take your suggestion(bait
) in file description as it could be Royal Luis, as it has longer balconies similar to Dutch ships and much more figuresI digged little deeper in your file. Mabe it coulde be Douphin Royal after refit. They share some similarities but difference is too big
Oh it's getting hot
. Royal Louis 1692. Many many similarities, especialy when we considered you called the file Royal Louis. As it was with DR 1668 it lacks figuresWhat I think it may be is The 104-gun Foudroyant of 1693.
Firstly almost perfect alining of stern decorations. Second it took part in action off Vélez-Málaga in 1707, so we have a trace of Spanish forces involved. I have no idea how they manged to put that flag on vessel. If I remember correctly English putted theirs above the captured ship. How Spanish flag menaged to be on french vesell is question to you
Do we play more or is it bingo?
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You have a good sense of investigation however some of your comparisons don't quite associate. The Dauphin royal you show initially is actually an academic piece representing a ship in the era of roughly 1725 to 1750 and has been named Dauphin Royal with no specific association with any of the real ships; it's simply a ''teaching'' model where one side of the hull can be fully opened to see the interior construction. the others are in the wrong era, except for the Foudroyant pic. You have made some good deductions on the fact that it probably is a french navy first rate ship of Louis XIV second navy which took shape right after the La Hougue disaster. So 1690+; to help advance that is the fact that there is no stern bottom balcony, which was part of the new construction rules. Now, as for the rest, I myself isn't sure of anything you compare this ship to the 1725 Foudroyant which came out later and I think it is a very good direction, the decor structure does resemble it quite a lot....But, the rear main board sculpting doesn't fit, and since those carvings would be carried over from one ship of a name to his successor, it rules out the 1693 Foudroyant. The flag itself may be a blue white and red with some crown and maybe the three ''fleur de lys'' emblem, which would make it french, but this is an interpretation of my part and it remains an enigma. I found something interesting while searching in my books; the Terrible was a first rate 2200 tons three decker also built in 1693 by Blaise Pangalo, who would later build the 1725 Foudroyant, and it is written that he based the whole Foudroyant on the Terrible, only adding a bit of length to it. more over, the artist by the name of Caffieri was responsible for both designs, as the bottom window surrounded by nimph busts, in an otherwise enclosed side gallery. the top flat window with the surrounding balcony also carries his signature. He was one of the most prolific artist beside Berain, who didn't have time for all of the design which needed to be made. The flag is my biggest issue, and I would need to look for more information on all of the 17th and 18th century naval flags of the french navy...There were a lot of them, some rarely seen....
however some of your comparisons don't quite associate. The Dauphin royal you show initially is actually an academic piece representing a ship in the era of roughly 1725 to 1750 and has been named Dauphin Royal with no specific association with any of the real ships; it's simply a ''teaching'' model where one side of the hull can be fully opened to see the interior construction. the others are in the wrong era, except for the Foudroyant pic. You have made some good deductions on the fact that it probably is a french navy first rate ship of Louis XIV second navy which took shape right after the La Hougue disaster. So 1690+; to help advance that is the fact that there is no stern bottom balcony, which was part of the new construction rules. Now, as for the rest, I myself isn't sure of anything you compare this ship to the 1725 Foudroyant which came out later and I think it is a very good direction, the decor structure does resemble it quite a lot....But, the rear main board sculpting doesn't fit, and since those carvings would be carried over from one ship of a name to his successor, it rules out the 1693 Foudroyant. The flag itself may be a blue white and red with some crown and maybe the three ''fleur de lys'' emblem, which would make it french, but this is an interpretation of my part and it remains an enigma. I found something interesting while searching in my books; the Terrible was a first rate 2200 tons three decker also built in 1693 by Blaise Pangalo, who would later build the 1725 Foudroyant, and it is written that he based the whole Foudroyant on the Terrible, only adding a bit of length to it. more over, the artist by the name of Caffieri was responsible for both designs, as the bottom window surrounded by nimph busts, in an otherwise enclosed side gallery. the top flat window with the surrounding balcony also carries his signature. He was one of the most prolific artist beside Berain, who didn't have time for all of the design which needed to be made. The flag is my biggest issue, and I would need to look for more information on all of the 17th and 18th century naval flags of the french navy...There were a lot of them, some rarely seen....
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I've read it somewhere it was a gift to son, but I don't remember the name of the king and It was suppose to be perfect model representing the best designs of naval architecture. Or sth like that.
I wrote after the book it was 1693 Foudroyant. Is it wrong described? On picture is from 1725?
Question to you. Can you make a model just from that miniaturized picture?
I wrote after the book it was 1693 Foudroyant. Is it wrong described? On picture is from 1725?
Question to you. Can you make a model just from that miniaturized picture?
The plan here is the Foudroyant, but the 1725 one it is possible however to see the similarities in the decor of the two, except for the main rear carving which is very different from the one on the artist drawing.....
As for making a model......Only from the pics it would be very hard since there is too much information missing; I guess it would be possible to find something to give a better overall picture of the 1725 Foudroyant
it is possible however to see the similarities in the decor of the two, except for the main rear carving which is very different from the one on the artist drawing.....As for making a model......Only from the pics it would be very hard since there is too much information missing; I guess it would be possible to find something to give a better overall picture of the 1725 Foudroyant
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Hello @GuyM I may have found our Coat of Arms
It is much possibly it's from Louis XIV period
And more practical part of this discussion. Some time ago I bought unfinished Deagostini SR in cheap dirt price to do a little bashing with 3d print accesories.
I printed and enlared one of your previose files . In one case to match the Apollo , in other to match the hull. Conclusion is: you just match the mold and don't look at balconies or go the Janos way scratch buliding
With the print matching mold you miss 9mm on both sides. It's the thicknes of plywood + 2mm of first layer of wood
Orginal file
It is much possibly it's from Louis XIV period
Ludwik XIV - Król Słońce / 1638 - 1715
Ludwik XIV - Król Słońce Ludwik XIV Wielki, Król Słońce (fr. le Roi-Soleil) (ur. 5 września 1638 w Saint-Germain-en-Laye, zm. 1 września 1715 w Wersalu) – król Francji i Nawarry w latach 1643–1715, syn Ludwika XIII, z dynastii Burbonów. Gdy zmarł Ludwik XIII Sprawiedliwy, jego syn i...
www.koga.net.pl
And more practical part of this discussion. Some time ago I bought unfinished Deagostini SR in cheap dirt price to do a little bashing with 3d print accesories.
I printed and enlared one of your previose files . In one case to match the Apollo , in other to match the hull. Conclusion is: you just match the mold and don't look at balconies or go the Janos way scratch buliding
Le Soleil Royal stern model by Janos [COMPLETED BUILD]
Well, after a few weeks I had enough of the rigging of Sovereign of the Seas and I put her temporarily on ice. I will come back and finish her sometimes in the near future. So here is the opportunity to start the next project, which I have planned for a long time. This is a complete scratch...
shipsofscale.com
With the print matching mold you miss 9mm on both sides. It's the thicknes of plywood + 2mm of first layer of wood
Orginal file
My best solution is to simply lookfor the Heller Soleil royal parts which have the wanted decors ans statues, then measure and take photos of them to insert in a 3D printer...I have much of the in my spare parts......
By the way, the coat of arms symbol belongs to the Duc de Beaufort, who was Louis XIV's bastard cousin....He was commander of all the navy's fleet
By the way, the coat of arms symbol belongs to the Duc de Beaufort, who was Louis XIV's bastard cousin....He was commander of all the navy's fleet
Hi yes could, but your project could look quite good with the modifications you want to do; Yes, I'm still searching for that flag, though I have found french flags with the horizontal stripes in bleu, white and red but not with the symbol I'm looking for.....
yes could, but your project could look quite good with the modifications you want to do; Yes, I'm still searching for that flag, though I have found french flags with the horizontal stripes in bleu, white and red but not with the symbol I'm looking for.....Hi
This particular rendering of the Foudroyant still displays a square tuck stern, which likely places it before the end of the 17th C.
Actually no; since it was to be the last big three decker built ( beside the1737 future Royal Louis) they ( Pangalo) actually built the square stern on the image ofthe Terrible from 1693, which was how they built the sterns at that point. It had the same faith as all the other big three deckers of the period, which is to not ove and rot in harbour........
So; I have made some more reading about that first ship stern pic which I was looking to identify; and that flag which bothered me, and still does; the flag is most probably the flag of france of the late part of the 17th and early 18th century. It has top and bottom red stripes with a white center; in the middle there is a big blue oval with three ''fleur de lys'' in a triangular pattern. The issue now with the illustration is that flag seems to have a crown on top of the oval and I'm not sure I'm seeing ''fleurs de lys'' even though it is flapping in the wind.
Next; I dug up some pics to compare the two different Foudroyants ( 1693 and 1723); I also read some interesting information. At the time of the great replacement builds, Hubac had already started his Foudroyant and was quite advanced before Pangalo was asked to replace the Soleil Royal; he already had a stern design which wasn't related to what we know for the Soleil Royal. Upon the name change at the time Pangalo was just starting his ship, he was told to keep the stern art he had (!) and an old drawing of Berain's SR stern was given to Hubac, therefore he had to tear down whatever was on the ship. So, here the question is: is the Pangalo ship design what will be refered in two subsequent ships? or the design of the 1723 Foudroyant different than the 1693 one? here are some pics....
So, the first one is labeled foudroyant 1693 version.....But it shouldn't have poop gun ports
The second one is supposed to be the 1723 version; it is longer and has the right number of gun ports, but it should also have poop gun ports
The third pic is the official 1723 drawing of the Foudroyant; be careful when you look as it isn't exactly the same as the other drawing
And finally, the fourth pic is said to be the 1693 Foudroyant(??) more likely the 1691 version if I attempt a guess. It would be the one that burned at La Hougue. It was somewhat a smaller three decker. Now, how does the drawing from the beginnig fit into this story? Or was it another ship completely? Like the 1692 Terrible, or the 1693 Triomphant, or its sibling the Agreable.....The rear stern sculpture seems to show an upright person either leanng on a sword or holding chains with two crouched or lying people at its feet...Could that be the stern decor of the 1693 Foudroyant initially Soleil Royal with a variation of the Royal Louis theme where the king sits on his throne holding chains with two crouched or lying people at its feet?
I do not have an answer for this, so if you have some information or pic which could help, please do so))
Next; I dug up some pics to compare the two different Foudroyants ( 1693 and 1723); I also read some interesting information. At the time of the great replacement builds, Hubac had already started his Foudroyant and was quite advanced before Pangalo was asked to replace the Soleil Royal; he already had a stern design which wasn't related to what we know for the Soleil Royal. Upon the name change at the time Pangalo was just starting his ship, he was told to keep the stern art he had (!) and an old drawing of Berain's SR stern was given to Hubac, therefore he had to tear down whatever was on the ship. So, here the question is: is the Pangalo ship design what will be refered in two subsequent ships? or the design of the 1723 Foudroyant different than the 1693 one? here are some pics....
So, the first one is labeled foudroyant 1693 version.....But it shouldn't have poop gun ports
The second one is supposed to be the 1723 version; it is longer and has the right number of gun ports, but it should also have poop gun ports
The third pic is the official 1723 drawing of the Foudroyant; be careful when you look as it isn't exactly the same as the other drawing
And finally, the fourth pic is said to be the 1693 Foudroyant(??) more likely the 1691 version if I attempt a guess. It would be the one that burned at La Hougue. It was somewhat a smaller three decker. Now, how does the drawing from the beginnig fit into this story? Or was it another ship completely? Like the 1692 Terrible, or the 1693 Triomphant, or its sibling the Agreable.....The rear stern sculpture seems to show an upright person either leanng on a sword or holding chains with two crouched or lying people at its feet...Could that be the stern decor of the 1693 Foudroyant initially Soleil Royal with a variation of the Royal Louis theme where the king sits on his throne holding chains with two crouched or lying people at its feet?
I do not have an answer for this, so if you have some information or pic which could help, please do so
))