SEAGULL - POF in 1:48

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Falmouth
I was fortunate to have been in Falmouth many times, you can feel the culture of seafaring history. If you look around at the architecture of residential and commercial property, there is evidence of historical connections to maritime trade. Whilst in Falmouth I visited the National Maritime Museum and was interested by the “Falmouth Packets”. Possibly the definitive work by Tony Pawlyn gives an insight into the origins and history of the Falmouth Packet service.

The Post Office Packet Service was part of the British Royal Mail. As the British empire and trade expanded globally there was a need to to carry personal, commercial and diplomatic letters and dispatches to regions beyond our shores. The "packets" were carried in Packet Boats and whilst there were recorded incidents of carrying only the packet the ships used also transported freight and passengers of the day.

On the 5th October 1661 the small hamlet of Smithwick was chartered and developed into the town of Falmouth with greater rights of self-determination. Falmouth was suitably fortified from earlier times, was a natural shelter and had one of the deepest harbours, allowing ships to sail at any state of the tide. It was also further west allowing vessels safe departure and clearance from the land into the prevailing westerly winds.

However a good water supply and the ability to service the requirements of maritime trade and sailors, the town developed. The government of the day provided support to build quays and quay-side warehousing to hold import and export freight. In 1815 there were a total of 19 lodging houses and 9 hotels to accommodate the travellers passing through Falmouth. The Greenbank Commercial and Packet Royal Hotel (the Greenbank Hotel) and the Navy Tavern, to name two.

The first packet ships travelled to Corunna in Spain, by 1808 there were 39 routes to Canada, North and South America, the Caribbean Islands and the Mediterranean.

The Packet Ships
The Post Office Packet Service began using private vessels, owned by individuals or syndicates, contracted into the service. From c1689 to 1839 some 125 vessels were used (though this number may not be fully accurate, as some names were used by a number of vessels) particularly following losses. From 1823 until 1851, when wooden sailing vessels out of Falmouth ended, the service was controlled by the Admiralty using and estimated 38 vessels.

Having fallen for the notion of modelling a Falmouth Packet Ship, I needed to select which vessel. I contacted the National Maritime Museum at Falmouth. Thanks to their assistance some interesting plans were sent to me, one of which was a “standard” Packet ship design by Marmadulke Stalkart (1750-1805), a celebrated navel architect of the period. I was encouraged by the information, but accessed various articles that mentioned the HMPB Seagull.

Lieutenant John Parsons transferred to Falmouth from West Indies station in 1833 awaiting a posting in the packet service. His first posting was the commander of the packet ship Seagull. A letter from Parsons dated 18th September 1837 read,

“……On the morning of 1st August (1837) the wind increased, and blew a perfect hurricane for about 4 hours, where it moderated a little, and veered to the south west, which enabled us to bend another top-sail. At noon we begun to weigh, and in three hours we were able to make sail off the reef, the Bahama Bank.” As a result of his actions it was judged he most probably saved the vessel and the crew.

Parsons remained in command of the Seagull until 15th March 1842. He purportedly went on half-pay awaiting his next commend, as was practice at that time. However records show he took command again for a short period that was recorded in the West Briton newspaper dated 23rd April 1847:-

THE QUICKEST VOYAGE EVER MADE TO RIO DE JANEIRO FROM FALMOUTH - Her Majesty’s packet brigantine “Seagull” , under the command of Lieut. J. Parsons, sailed from Falmouth on the 6th December last (1846 )” and via Madeira, Teneriffe, and across the Atlantic to Pernambuco, Bahia and “Rio De Janerio, arriving on the morning of the 13th January“ (1847). The voyage I estimate to be about 4,900 nautical miles and it took 37 days, 21 hours. “This is considered to be the shortest voyage out to Rio Janario ever performed by any packet in her Majesty’s service, touching at the northern ports”





Parsons went on to command another ship, HM Crane and Command of the Seagull passed to Lt. Henry Percy Dicken on the 8th April 1845. There appears to be some confusion and contradiction as to who commanded the record breaking run accounts differ. Command was with Henry Percy Dicken, but records show John Parsons commanded the voyage, however Lt. James Swale is reported to have made a voyage to the same destination also on the 6th December, though the year was noted. Swale assumed command on the 21st March 1848 which post dated the record achievement. Further research is possible into the history of the Seagull’s commanders.

“Towards the end of 1850 the packet station at Falmouth was in the final stages of being wound up. The West India steamers had at last secured the South American contract, and the last but one of the sailing packets were all at sea on their final voyages. On the 6th December the HM Brig Seagull, under the command of Lt. Smale, sailed for Brazil. She carried no passengers, but had freight of £40,000.” This would be c£5.2 million today. From the Royal Cornwall Gazette 2nd May 1851:

“On Wednesday morning the Seagull, Lieut Smale, arrived from Rio de Janeiro, 47 days passage. She bought only a small parcel of letters, and but three packets of diamonds as freight; Passengers - Miss Lucy and Miss Mary Weitman, Master Le Febre, Mrs Fowler and three children, and Mr Manuel. The Tay steamer, having left Rio subsequently, her advices having been some days anticipated. This is the last vessel on this station as a packet, and with her this old and valuable station ceases to be the starting port of her Majesty’s mails, at least for the present.”

An interesting vessel had been identified. The Seagull. Her history is outstanding:-
  • Survived a Hurricane.
  • May have undergone a conversion in mast and rigging arrangement.
  • Made a record breaking trans-Atlantic run.
  • Was the last sailing Packet ship to return to Falmouth.
Seagull
An internet search revealed eight ships of the Royal Navy that have borne the name HMS Seagull or HMS Sea Gull. Excluding modern day vessels (1909 to the current time) the remaining vessels were dated 1795, a 16 gun brig-sloop lost in the English Channel in February 1808. 1805 a 16 gun Seagull Class brig-sloop that was captured by the Danes in 1808 that sunk and was recovered and saw service again in the Norwegian Navy. A French sloop, the Sylphe was captured by the Royal Navy in 1808 and named HMS Seagull and was later sold in 1814. HMS Seagull (1831) was a 12 gun schooner broken up in 1856. HMS Seagull (1855) was an Albacore Class wooden gunboat sold in 1864 and finally HMS Seagull 1868 and Plover Class gunboat sold in 1887.

Contact was then made with the Royal Maritime Museum Greenwich and a search conducted on the available data base. Documents and planes relating to a number of vessels were identified. One made reference to a specific Packet design, a 6 gun Schooner that was to be constructed at Chatham and Woolwich Dockyeads. These were to be named the Seagull and Petterel. In the event the Petterel construction was cancelled.

The Naval Database as well as the Chatham Dockyard records confirm that HMPB Seagull was launched at Chatham Dockyard on the 21st November 1831. She was a 6 gunned Schooner of 279 tons. Further more she returned to Chatham in 1834 for a conversion from the 3 masted schooner as built into a 2 masted brigantine. The reason for this is unclear but packet boats were very lightly armed and speed and reduced size crew were main driving forces at that time. The vessel was eventually disposed on in 1852.

Other searches revealed a painting of The Packet Seagull by Nicholas Condy the Younger (1816-1851).

In short, over the last 3 months, with the assistance of a group supportive experts I had sourced some relevant history on Falmouth the packet ships and furthermore had identified the Seagull with an inspirational pedigree. Detailed sketches and plans dated 1829 to 1832 have been obtained that would allow construction of a model to commence.

Where do we go from here?
 
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These are the "Seagulls" listed in threedecks - so as understood it is the 6-gun schooner you are interested in...

Screenshot 2023-07-14 095454.png


of this Seagull launched in 1831 several in total seven contemporary drawings are existing

j1402.jpg j1405.jpgj1403.jpg


So a very good basis for building a great scratch model
 
Thank you very much for showing interest in my build log. The information you have given confirms my research. I ordered the sketches and plans from the Royal Maritime Museum Greenwich and the first two arrived a day or so ago and the remainder are due next week. These cover the original proposals from 1829 for two Schooners. In the event the Petterel (Woolwich Dock Yard) was cancelled early in 1831 and the Seagull at Chatham was built to completion. I plan to post other details from the plans later next week.

You will note in your middle plan the vessel is shown with 5 masts! She was originally launched as a three masted Schooner but converted to a 2 masted Brigantine very soon after launch. Why do you suppose this change was made? My guess is either performance speed, or reducing crew size.
 
May I say, that I would go for the two masted brigantine version
You have all necessary information in the drawings - even the sails are shown (which is not often the case)
Did you already decide if you make Plank on Bulkhead or Plank on Frames? and in which scale?
Sorry for my questions
 
Please find below the final part of my research, a timeline of the Seagull and its commanders.

The decision at this point is to construct a 1:48 model, 1/4" = 1'-0" This match's the line drawing already received and should take copying/tracing easier to transpose dimensions from plan to wood.

The deck length is 95' and would be 24"/61cm on the model.
Overall length bowsprit to rear sails 157' equating to 39"/99cm.
Beam 26' would translate to 6.5"/16cm
Height Keel to Main Mast 114' would be 29"/74cm

The construction will be plank on frame and I will omit parts of the decking and planking to reveal the internal structure and accommodation. On this point I will need some information on materials, finish and styling in the future.

The model will be the 2 masted version following the conversion, based on available information and a slightly reduced workload!

Now awaiting the final outstanding plans before I can get started.

By the way some timber has showed up!

Timber has Arrived copy.jpg
 

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Hi, The final documentation arrived from the Royal Maritime Museum Greenwich today. I now have the following:-

13th July 1829 (issued to Chatham 26th August 1829) - Lines Drawing - The Draught Proposed for building a Schooner Packet.
26th August 1829 (signed off 24th September 1829) - Section - Sketches for building at Chatham the "Forrester" and "Griffin" 10 gun Brigs and the "Seagull, "Hornet" and "Spider" Schooners.

6th December 1830 - Section - Midship Section of the Petterel (not built) and Seagull packet schooners. (A4 downloaded and legible).

6th December 1830 - In-Board Profile - Profile and Plans for building the Packet Schooners the Petterel (not built) and the Seagull at Chatham19th March 1832
19th March 1832 - Sail - Seagull Brigantine. (A4 downloaded and legible).
9th January 1835 Chatham Yard - Profile of HM Packet Seagull. After conversion from Schooner to Brigantine. After conversion from Schooner to Brigantine.

9th July 1835 Chatham Yard - Deck Plans - Upper and Lower Deck decks of HM Packet Seagull. After conversion from Schooner to Brigantine.

I now have a considerable amount of documentation to review and interpret into my build plan!

I realise that I have never cut a frame before and so have decided to "test" some parts in lower cost, soft wood to get a feel for the shape and fit etc. before cutting the "on-Model" parts.

Finally I now have started to ask many questions, with all due respect to my initial followers, are they better to post on the more general parts of the forum or on my log? Recommendations please.
 
Good choice to go with the brigantine version. She'll make a sweet little model without over burdening yourself first time out of the gate. Also nice to have the sail plan. You'll find all the rigging information in Lennarth Petersson's Rigging Period Fore and Aft Craft (Naval Institute Press Annapolis,MD).
 
Hi, The final documentation arrived from the Royal Maritime Museum Greenwich today. I now have the following:-

13th July 1829 (issued to Chatham 26th August 1829) - Lines Drawing - The Draught Proposed for building a Schooner Packet.
26th August 1829 (signed off 24th September 1829) - Section - Sketches for building at Chatham the "Forrester" and "Griffin" 10 gun Brigs and the "Seagull, "Hornet" and "Spider" Schooners.

6th December 1830 - Section - Midship Section of the Petterel (not built) and Seagull packet schooners. (A4 downloaded and legible).

6th December 1830 - In-Board Profile - Profile and Plans for building the Packet Schooners the Petterel (not built) and the Seagull at Chatham19th March 1832
19th March 1832 - Sail - Seagull Brigantine. (A4 downloaded and legible).
9th January 1835 Chatham Yard - Profile of HM Packet Seagull. After conversion from Schooner to Brigantine. After conversion from Schooner to Brigantine.

9th July 1835 Chatham Yard - Deck Plans - Upper and Lower Deck decks of HM Packet Seagull. After conversion from Schooner to Brigantine.

I now have a considerable amount of documentation to review and interpret into my build plan!

I realise that I have never cut a frame before and so have decided to "test" some parts in lower cost, soft wood to get a feel for the shape and fit etc. before cutting the "on-Model" parts.

Finally I now have started to ask many questions, with all due respect to my initial followers, are they better to post on the more general parts of the forum or on my log? Recommendations please.
I think with the time it will be the best to post questions or start discussions directly in your building log - the scratch building community will follow your log on regular basis, so you will get faster replies and with more details
Good, that you received the drawings - how long did it take from order until you received them?
 
Good choice to go with the brigantine version. She'll make a sweet little model without over burdening yourself first time out of the gate. Also nice to have the sail plan. You'll find all the rigging information in Lennarth Petersson's Rigging Period Fore and Aft Craft (Naval Institute Press Annapolis,MD).
Good hint with the book Rigging Period Fore-and-Aft-Craft by Lennart Petersson

we have a small book review here in our forum

 
Hi, The final documentation arrived from the Royal Maritime Museum Greenwich today. I now have the following:-

13th July 1829 (issued to Chatham 26th August 1829) - Lines Drawing - The Draught Proposed for building a Schooner Packet.
26th August 1829 (signed off 24th September 1829) - Section - Sketches for building at Chatham the "Forrester" and "Griffin" 10 gun Brigs and the "Seagull, "Hornet" and "Spider" Schooners.

6th December 1830 - Section - Midship Section of the Petterel (not built) and Seagull packet schooners. (A4 downloaded and legible).

6th December 1830 - In-Board Profile - Profile and Plans for building the Packet Schooners the Petterel (not built) and the Seagull at Chatham19th March 1832
19th March 1832 - Sail - Seagull Brigantine. (A4 downloaded and legible).
9th January 1835 Chatham Yard - Profile of HM Packet Seagull. After conversion from Schooner to Brigantine. After conversion from Schooner to Brigantine.

9th July 1835 Chatham Yard - Deck Plans - Upper and Lower Deck decks of HM Packet Seagull. After conversion from Schooner to Brigantine.

I now have a considerable amount of documentation to review and interpret into my build plan!

I realise that I have never cut a frame before and so have decided to "test" some parts in lower cost, soft wood to get a feel for the shape and fit etc. before cutting the "on-Model" parts.

Finally I now have started to ask many questions, with all due respect to my initial followers, are they better to post on the more general parts of the forum or on my log? Recommendations please.
Please take a look also at this topic


There is a link to an area of wikipedia, where you can find a lot of drawings in high resolution for free download - maybe you can find your also - sometimes it is good to have the drawings in better quality also digital.....
 
Hi, I received help from Beatrice Okoro, Images and Brand Licensing Officer at RMG. I have just received copies of the original Seagull plans (about 1 week from order to delivery) and as expected there is a gap between the plan detail and what the skilled shipwright would have built! Unfortunately there is an even bigger gap between what I know and scratch model building! I need your help (again).

The picture below shows the stem detail….. Is this the upper limit of the deadwood?
IMG_2841.jpg


This line progresses through the midships (see below)
IMG_2842.jpg

Note the arrow head to the left of the pointer, it drops through from the center line of the mast above, I assume this is the position of the mast step.

Finally at the stern…...
IMG_2840.jpg


What is the line in the photo below? How does the Gripe fit into the keel/false keel?
IMG_2845.jpg


I have assumed that the 3 green horizontal lines on the shear are the water lines. On the section the green lines are also marked, if these are aligned does that give the relative height above the keel for the different frames to step the deadwood accordingly?

IMG_2843.jpg


Thanks in anticipation……..
 
Frame spacing on ship plans and model.

Sketches to accompany the ship plans show alternate frames with cross pieces and half floors attached to futtocks and top timbers. They are 12.5 inches wide and taper through 8 inches to 6 inches at the top rail. Each frame touches the adjacent frames at the base on the keel.

The frame stations on the drawing are 4 feet apart. The frame station profiles are shown on the drawing section, though as usual some interpolation would be needed for intermediate frames between the drawn stations.

Would it be a correct assumption to follow the detail in the sketches and use the frame information as a guide to the profile?

Or should I use an alternative frame spacing in the model?

Your thoughts and recommendations would be useful at this stage.
 
Still trying to resolve my frame spacing issue. Please see below the photographs from the sketches.

X Pieces & Half Floor Arrangement.jpgX Pieces & Half Floor No2.jpg

If I have interpreted this correctly there are two designs of frame one with a cross piece and a second with a half floor. the photo above shows these are butted against each other. This being the case from the stem 1st complete frame (aft of the cant frames) to the stern complete frame this would measure 84 feet so this would represent 84 frames. I want to make a cut away model on one side so some of these frames would need to be cut through. Would an alternative viable option to butt two frames together then leave a gap of 2 feet, effectively giving "double" frame arrangement? Are there any model considerations for this proposal e.g loss in strength etc.?
 
Did you compare already with the other drawing ?
View attachment 385922
Here we can see, that the mast feet are based on the line - so I guess you are correct
Uwek, what confused me is why the deadwood line is shown as a curve? Should it not be stepped, at least locally to take the frames. On the issue of frame spacing I note there are double frames with double rooms, that reduce to a single at a higher futtock to support the top sides, or single frames with a single room. My plans and sketches appears to be all frames and no rooms! Is this common place?

Thanks……
 

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  • scan1027.pdf
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Thank you to all those who are following my build as well as those who have taken the time to send messages for guidance, these are all really appreciated.

The last 48 hours I have sawn down some Sycamore for the keel and false keel and these are being glues and dowelled. My attention has now turned to the stern and stem posts and the interconnecting deadwood areas.

I have two sets of original plans 1829 and 1835. The original hull construction (1829) and the alterations from the 3 masted Schooner to the two masted Brigantine (1835). After good advice I am modelling the latter. Combining the two sets of documentation I have discovered what has remained and what has been cut away and replaced with a different design of parts.

Seagull Stem 1829 cf 1835.jpeg


Seagull Stern 1829 cf 1835 .jpeg

On the basis of the above I think I am ready to shape the stem and stern components.

Any comments much appreciated…..Thanks …….
 
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