Quarterdeck knees

[Don Case]

I've noticed that on the Swan series quarterdeck there are no hanging kness on the aft four beams and no lodging knees on the aft two beams. I tried looking at other scrarch builds and only found one(can't remember which) that showed the aft beams and it looked like they were fully equipped with knees. Is there some kind of rule regarding this? I looked in Steel and Goodwins "Man of War" and they don't mention missing knees.

 

[Uwek]

I never red, that there is a special rule where and which kind of knees were installed.
Also it was changing heavily over the time, with more positive and negative experiences with changes, especially when the shipwrights started to exchange wooden with iron knees in order to be more flexibel with the locations of the guns etc.
So I think it depends on the period and ships class etc.

In the following some examples showing the changes and developments in the construction of the knees

'Hampton Court' (1709)​

Scale: 1:96. A plan showing the round house, quarterdeck and forecastle, upper deck, middle deck, and orlop deck for 'Hampton Court' (1709), a 1706 Establishment 70-gun, Third Rate, two-decker. The plan shows the deck beams, carlines, and lodging knees for each deck.

Signed on the reverse: William Gauntlet [Quarterman to the Shipwrights, and later Foreman of Shipwrights at Chatham Dockyard, 1765].

'Hampton Court' (1709) | Royal Museums Greenwich

www.rmg.co.uk

'Saint George' (1740)​

Scale: 1:96. A plan showing the middle deck, gun deck (lower deck) and the orlop deck for 'Saint George' (1740), a 1733 Establishment 90-gun Second Rate, three decker. The plan shows the deck beams, carlines, ledges and lodging knees for each deck.

'Saint George' (1740) | Royal Museums Greenwich

www.rmg.co.uk

Vengeance (1774)​

Scale: 1:96. A printed plan of part of the main deck (from Gun Room to bow) for Vengeance (1774), a 74-gun, Third Rate, two-decker, illustrating the layout, numbering and distribution of sailors, officers and marines hammocks. The plan also shows the beams, knees and hatchways on the deck. The plan is annotated with a table recording the allocation space to each rank of crew, from Landsman to Officer; a table recording the division of the men's messes; and an explanation and key for the plan.

Vengeance (1774) | Royal Museums Greenwich

www.rmg.co.uk

Unspecified merchant ship (fl.1797)​

Probably 1:48. A plan showing the method of fixing the beams, knees, carlings and lodging knees for the forward half of the main deck of an unspecified merchant ship (fl.1797), as taken off by George Hilhouse in December 1797.

Unspecified merchant ship (fl.1797) | Royal Museums Greenwich

www.rmg.co.uk

Anacreon (1813)​

Scale: 1:24. Plan showing the section and plans illustrating the method of attaching the upper deck and lower deck beams to the sides of the Anacreon (1813), a 16 (later 22-gun) Ship Sloop building at Plymouth Dockyard.

Signed by William Rule [Surveyor of the Navy, 1793-1813] and Henry Peake [Surveyor of the Navy, 1806-1822].

Anacreon (1813) | Royal Museums Greenwich

www.rmg.co.uk

Sectional model; Beam​

Scale: Unknown. Sectional model showing a method of securing a deck beam to the ship's side with iron supports made from wood and metal and varnished. The exterior consists of three varnished planks which have been pinned to eight wooden frames. The interior of the model is complete with a wooden deck beam which is secured to the ship's side with a traditional steamed hanging knee, both of which are reinforced with three metal knees which are made from lead and painted black. Both the knee and the beam are fastened throughout with metal bolts which secure them to the ship's side as well as to each other. The inside of the model is also complete with four ceiling planks, the middle two of which have a gunport painted in black on them.

Sectional model; Beam | Royal Museums Greenwich

www.rmg.co.uk

So the best is to define the type of ship, time period and try to find a similar vessel where a contemporary drawing is maybe existing

 

[Don Case]

Thank you Uwe. I had forgotten that they sometimes used iron knees. That may be the case with the Swan series although Dan Vada usually included those in his build. He did put a bracket over the quarter light. Kevin Kenny isn't there yet. Stuglo is close to that part of the build so we'll see what he does. I spent a few hours going through the scratch build logs here but I couldn't find an English ship for the latter part of the 18th century that showed the aft section of the quarter deck. Again I forgot to look in the RMG, my bad. I'll have to hang a sign on my computer that says."Look in RMG"
I'll take a closer look at the drawings you posted. I can't really see the red lines all that well so I will copy them and convert them to black and white. That usually shows stuff a lot better.