Noob Question

There is very little scratchbuilding going on these days, so it is probably best to get a kit

Well Bob, than look around here

SOS Build Logs Scratch or from Plans

This Forum is all about building your ship from pure scratch, with the aid of plans, or even heavy modification or kit bashing. All can be found here.
shipsofscale.com
 
I guess I am completely out of date, and too blinkered in my own field - ! :D
Bob
 
Last edited:
Well, glockexe, just like I expected - a lot of responses. Let me say that everyone has a different level of skills and talent. My humble opinion is that I would never start out with a scratch build. I have about 3 kits under my belt. One kit took one year (Model Expo Colonial Schooner). The other two kits were 5 1/2 years and 3 1/2 years to build. It is a hobby that you settle in with as it is not a weekend completion. After my three kits, I decided it was time for me to try a scratch build.
It cost me several hundreds of dollars (USD) to outfit my shop to mill out and cut out lumber. Even if the supplier gives you close milled would, there is still a great deal to have to saw and shape yourself such as at least three power-tools to consider to start out with. A Mini Table saw. A bench-type scroll saw. A disk sander planner. Some suppliers do not send you wood that is the exact thickness and can have wavy sections and you will have to plane it down to your specifications. Scratch building in most cases is not going to give you instructions, only a plan set. Kits will give you plans and most all the time a pictorial instruction booklet.

However, your skills, talent, natural ability, and budget might allow for these things.

As Jim so eloquently stated that a kit (again my opinion) is the way to go as you have ALL the materials there and only a FEW basic tools such as Exacto Knife, a needle file set and a pin vise (with small drill bits) and a few other less costly items.
I am personally not a fan of small kits. They are small, the planking is small, rigging only somewhat represents real-life rigging. However, the kit can be built in less time.

And one more thing to consider is that not all kits are good and well designed. Some kits have parts that do not fit well and you have to put forth extra work and in some cases modification of metal parts and things for proper fitment.
None of what I am mentioning is meant to discourage you, but to arm you with enough info to make a good choice. Brian mentioned Caldercraft. They are good and have reliable fitting parts.
Remember that with wood, you are "building" a ship and not just "putting one together".
 
Jimsky well stated the essential differences between kit and scratch building. But after building several kits a modeler will have about 90% of the skills needed to scratch build If they are interested in trying this approach. An investment in a few essential power tools will be needed as pointed out. See my scratch build log for Austin for some ideas on how to get started.
 
zoly99sask said:
Bob, scratch building is not for everyone, let's keep it real Bob!
Click to expand...
Zoly, I must agree with Bob (the other Bob) scratch building is a real option. It involves more research, but it opens you to an unlimited array of vessels to build. You master the skills required to build, you have an assortment of methods to build, the choice of materials is yours, as is the scale. You are not limited as to what kit is available or to the cost of the kit involved. Many kits are not historically accurate, but are made to ease production. I would far rather build from scratch than assemble a kit.

Just my opinion.

Bob
 
glockexe said:
Curious, how much did you spend on your first ship, mail order or local, how long was your first build, see a lot of ships on ebay from China, thoughts on Chinese quality, differences between $100 ship and $500 ship, is it quality or number of parts, any other memories from your first purchase and build, thanks.
Click to expand...

I got my first kit a little over a year ago from ZHL. I paid $200 plus shipping. Like I said it is my first build and is a good learning experience. You can see my progress in my build log for the Black Pearl 2016 edition.
 
Squarebriggs said:
Zoly, I must agree with Bob (the other Bob) scratch building is a real option.
Click to expand...
There is no question that a scratch building method is an option. Whether it is a 'real option' Umm...I am in doubt. Scatch building it a great way of learning this hobby, but I agree with Zoly: it is not for everyone! It is not about spending more time to research, it is all about the skills you will need versus the skills you have! If you building the furniture in your primary job or hobby, perhaps, you most likely will not have trouble to scratch build. However, if you are a programmer (Programmers, don't be offended, it is just an example), and never hand the picture on the wall, you will get frustrated and eventually resulted in a fiasco which puts away the shipbuilding hobby.

Obviously, building from kits doesn't guarantee you will finish the model and be happy. In this case, I recommend something as an entry-level kit, which may even include some tools required to build. A solid wood hull most likely your best bet. But who we are to decide for you?
 
My first kit was the tug 'Ulyses' from Occre - cost me £160 I think. Really good kit with precise(ish) instructions
 
Jimsky said:
There is no question that a scratch building method is an option. Whether it is a 'real option' Umm...I am in doubt. Scatch building it a great way of learning this hobby, but I agree with Zoly: it is not for everyone! It is not about spending more time to research, it is all about the skills you will need versus the skills you have! If you building the furniture in your primary job or hobby, perhaps, you most likely will not have trouble to scratch build. However, if you are a programmer (Programmers, don't be offended, it is just an example), and never hand the picture on the wall, you will get frustrated and eventually resulted in a fiasco which puts away the shipbuilding hobby.

Obviously, building from kits doesn't guarantee you will finish the model and be happy. In this case, I recommend something as an entry-level kit, which may even include some tools required to build. A solid wood hull most likely your best bet. But who we are to decide for you?
Click to expand...
I have to throw in my 2 cents. Well I’m Canadian so I guess that’s about half a cent. To go right off the line and attempt a scratch build I think would not end well. Building from a kit at the very least gives you a good idea of the parts of a ship model and how they are glued in place. Having never done this one would find themselves staring at plans with no guidance whatsoever. Even if the kit instructions are rough they give you somewhat of an idea of what is going on. Then again I guess some individuals would be capable of omitting this introduction to ship model building.
 
ARE WE FORGETTING SOMETHING HERE, IS THERE NOT SOMETHING CALLED SEMI-SCRATCH, CHIME IN DAVE, again scratch definition would that not include doing your own plans, taking, can one get a plan from NMM OR OTHER RESOURCES AND SCRATCH BUILD A MODEL FROM THOSE PLANS ANSWER NO, but do agree no scratch build before kits, you can BASH A KIT HENCE SEMI-SCRATCH, you can SCRATCH BUILD FROM A MONOGRAPH AND A MODELING SET OF PLANS and with SOME VERY GOOD HELP DO A SCRATCH BUILD DOES IT REQUIRE a lot of work and making mistakes each mistake is a learning experience, check out my Le Rochefort build there were many naysayers there said no Don beyond your skill level, guess what i have acomplished what my main thing was BUILDING FROM SCRATCH A SET OF FRAMES, from here on in is JUST A PLUS, is a monograph like ancre that includes not just plans but an esential instruction book, hence MONOGRAPH, again thanks to GILLES, MAARTEN, NIGEL, CHRISTIAN, and others who took the time to help, THIS IS SOS, one further note i would never ever attempt either kit or scratch a VICTORY, SoS, salamander, 74 gun ship etc, now that is beyond my skill level and will always be, just my 5 cents(I(NFLATION). GOD BLESS STAY SAFE Don
 
Model Expo usually has sales from time to time, when I bought my model, it went as low as $79.95 I think it was, I was eyeballing a pirate ship and the Schooner Lyde I think it was.
 
Why once more we are starting here a general discussion of kits or scratch?
Our new member @glockexe is completely new in shipmodeling, but interested in this hobby
glockexe said:
I am retired and my wife says i need something to keep me busy. Never built any wood models, several plastic cars when i was young. Need some general info, best place to buy, some of the best retailers, i’m thinking something in the $100 range to start. One name that popped up and looked like quality models was Ingermanland? Any thoughts, advice, do’s and dont’s. Thanks
Click to expand...
Now he is looking around and try to find out, what is possible to get for 100 US$ range - Is it possible to start the hobby and to get a reasonable kit for this money.
And my comment is:
Yes it is possible to get into this hobby for this money.

If you add some additional money for some basic tools, which will be necessary. For scratch building you need usually much more tools, also some power tools, in which you have to "invest" for the future. So if you want to check out, if the hobby of ship modeling is something for you, look around for a nice kit, a ship in which you are interested.

Take a look for example on the Occre kits, which are in this price range, or slightly over it:

Kit review - ESSEX - Whaler (Moby Dick) in scale 1:60 from Occre

ESSEX - Whaler known by the book and film about Moby Dick History mentioned by Occre: In November 1820, the sinking of the whaling ship Essex, along with the survival of part of her crew, thrilled and moved the US public. The year before she had set sail from Nantucket on a new whaling...
shipsofscale.com

There are also cheaper kits available, but like everywhere in life
You will get what you will pay for - means if the kit is cheaper, the ships are even smaller (reduced material quantities) or the material quality is lower.

Forget in moment the mentioned Ingermanland, which is a relatively complex kit
and definitely in another, much higher price range than your budget of 100 $
 
for my "restart" in Ship-Modell-Building - after a long hiatus with pet-raising, programming (*wink @Jimsky ), etc. - I chose a "Section-Model" from AL to figure out if I could - and want - to "do" it again... I still remembered the weeks/months of planking the "Bounty" and "Endeavour" some 30 years ago befor I was able to switch to the more "diversified" work on the ship and its rigging ... the section model was a great help in "condensing" the single stages when building a model!
 
Just to recap - this was the initial question:
How much did you spend on your first ship, mail order or local, how long was your first build, see a lot of ships on ebay from China, thoughts on Chinese quality, differences between $100 ship and $500 ship, is it quality or number of parts, any other memories from your first purchase and build,
It was then followed up with this:
Really asking the difference between kit and scratch.
--------------------
Uwe has summed it up correctly "You will get what you pay for" And the difference between kit and scratch has been answered in full.
But at the moment, we do not know if any of the above answers have been of any help, or just caused confusion!
Bob
 
Uwek said:
Why once more we are starting here a general discussion of kits or scratch?
Our new member @glockexe is completely new in shipmodeling, but interested in this hobby

Now he is looking around and try to find out, what is possible to get for 100 US$ range - Is it possible to start the hobby and to get a reasonable kit for this money.
And my comment is:
Yes it is possible to get into this hobby for this money.

If you add some additional money for some basic tools, which will be necessary. For scratch building you need usually much more tools, also some power tools, in which you have to "invest" for the future. So if you want to check out, if the hobby of ship modeling is something for you, look around for a nice kit, a ship in which you are interested.

Take a look for example on the Occre kits, which are in this price range, or slightly over it:

Kit review - ESSEX - Whaler (Moby Dick) in scale 1:60 from Occre

ESSEX - Whaler known by the book and film about Moby Dick History mentioned by Occre: In November 1820, the sinking of the whaling ship Essex, along with the survival of part of her crew, thrilled and moved the US public. The year before she had set sail from Nantucket on a new whaling...
shipsofscale.com

There are also cheaper kits available, but like everywhere in life
You will get what you will pay for - means if the kit is cheaper, the ships are even smaller (reduced material quantities) or the material quality is lower.

Forget in moment the mentioned Ingermanland, which is a relatively complex kit
and definitely in another, much higher price range than your budget of 100 $
Click to expand...
ok,in looking on google i found that ship for $149 including frt, my question is, is this in the capabilities of a rookie at 75. And will i get all the instructions that i need, and should i buy tools piecemeal or a starter kit, and is there a list of tools i will need somewhere, thanks
 
I don't know. There are too many unknowns, such as have you built anything before? What type of ship do you want to build? Have you any tools at all. Are you happy to risk hundreds of dollars on somthing that may not work out? I am completely blinkered in this sort of thing, but I use a minimum of tools that cost very little, and would never even consider a kit to begin with - But very few will agree with me! I will not suggest anything else, but it is well worth considering doing something that is simple and will only cost you a few dollars to start with. Age also takes its toll on eyesight and dexterity of fingers (I know - I am 76)!
This is sound advice, but again - very few will agree with me.
Here is one I built recently in a few hours (Utube)
I will say no more on this particular thread unless specifically asked to do so -
Here are my tools:

Hand tools copy (Medium).jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top