Mast position

[bandido]

I am building the Le Soleil Royal and my instructions do not cover the position of the Mizzen and foremast in relationship to the Main mast. I have built 2 other models and in those the Mizzen was not straight its position was a few degrees toward the stern I have not built a 3 master before, so I do not know the position of the foremast at all. I have tried to find some reading material about the positions of masts in relationship to each other that having issues finding anything constructive Need a little help here!!

 

[Uwek]

I am building the Le Soleil Royal and my instructions do not cover the position of the Mizzen and foremast in relationship to the Main mast. I have built 2 other models and in those the Mizzen was not straight its position was a few degrees toward the stern I have not built a 3 master before, so I do not know the position of the foremast at all. I have tried to find some reading material about the positions of masts in relationship to each other that having issues finding anything constructive Need a little help here!!

Do I understand it correct?
You are asking about the angle(s) related to the keel, or the exact location on the keel (means distance fore or aft)?

 

[bandido]

Do I understand it correct?
You are asking about the angle(s) related to the keel, or the exact location on the keel (means distance fore or aft)?

the angles of the mast

 

[Uwek]

I could imagine, that our friend @Hubac’s Historian is able to give you an answer or a hint to find the correct information.

Do you know his building log?

Soleil Royal by Heller - an Extensive Modification and Partial Scratch-Build by Hubac’s Historian

Hello, Ships of Scale! My name is Marc LaGuardia, and for the past three years, I have been extensively bashing the Heller kit in an effort to transform it into what I believe is her re-fit appearance of 1689. The project exists in its entirely, here at Model Ship World...

shipsofscale.com

If not there is maybe the possibility to check on the drawings of the Saint Philippe

Planset review - SAINT PHILIPPE (1693 - 1715) - a 90 gun built by Francois Coulomb at Toulon" by Jean-Claude LEMINEUR

Planset Review: Monographie: SAINT PHILIPPE (1693 - 1715) - 90 gun built by Francois Coulomb at Toulon by Jean-Claude LEMINEUR in scale 1:48 Translated by François Fougerat many thanks to Didier Berti who made this Review possible ! This monographie is available from ancre in different...

shipsofscale.com

BTW: Slightly it was possible to adjust the angle with the change an adjustment of the wedges inside the mast foot

 

[Thomas]

The angle of the masts is referred to as "rake" and as far as I know, there were no standards. In The Anatomy of Nelsons Ships, Longridge gives a complicated description of the rake of the masts on the Victory, but applying it would require a lot of complicated math (see attached pic). The rule of thumb I use is that the foremast should be vertical (i.e. perpendicular to the keel) the main mast should be raked back slightly and the mizzen mast should be raked twice as much as the main mast. So if the main mast is raked 2%, the mizzen would be 4%. If you are building a kit, technically the design of the decks (position of the holes for the masts) and the plans should help you.

The main thing is don't make the rake too extreme and make sure that the mast tops (platforms) on the main and mizzen masts are parallel to the keel so they don't slope backwards. Hope this helps.

Thomas

 

[Bob Ellis]

You should be able to measure the rake from the NMM draft.

 

[Luiz B. F. Grassi]

Hi, bandido ! In most books dealing with this subject, the inclination of the masts in relation to the keel ( Rake ) is : vertical ( 90º ) for the Foremast, 2º to 4º for the Mainmast, and double ( 4º to 8º ) for the Mizzen. This adjustment was determined by the Ship's Captain, in the port , depending on the weight distribution on board, for better performance of the ship, mainly for navigation against the wind. This made a special difference for Frigates which in some cases could have the Mizzen "raked"up to 8º. In your case, a ship of the line, it is likely that the mizzen rake would be a maximum of 4º, more than that wouldn't make much difference in performance due to the size and weight of the ship.

 

[bandido]

The angle of the masts is referred to as "rake" and as far as I know, there were no standards. In The Anatomy of Nelsons Ships, Longridge gives a complicated description of the rake of the masts on the Victory, but applying it would require a lot of complicated math (see attached pic). The rule of thumb I use is that the foremast should be vertical (i.e. perpendicular to the keel) the main mast should be raked back slightly and the mizzen mast should be raked twice as much as the main mast. So if the main mast is raked 2%, the mizzen would be 4%. If you are building a kit, technically the design of the decks (position of the holes for the masts) and the plans should help you.

The main thing is don't make the rake too extreme and make sure that the mast tops (platforms) on the main and mizzen masts are parallel to the keel so they don't slope backwards. Hope this helps.

Thomas

View attachment 333263

That does help and a will rake the main and the mizzen masts 2 and 4 degrees just a little as the scale would make it hard to get perfect but a little!!!

 

[Vfordyce]

I think that the holes in my SR were very close. If you want something different, I suppose you'd have to fill the holes and drill new ones. You do have everything pretty much aligned, though, already.

 

[bandido]

I think that the holes in my SR were very close. If you want something different, I suppose you'd have to fill the holes and drill new ones. You do have everything pretty much aligned, though, already.

You are probably rite Like I originally had mentioned my 2 other ships had the rakes designed into the models! When I pre-installed the masts into my SR I noticed there was no rakes in the main or the Mizzen, and that generated the Question??

 

[Vfordyce]

You are probably rite Like I originally had mentioned my 2 other ships had the rakes designed into the models! When I pre-installed the masts into my SR I noticed there was no rakes in the main or the Mizzen, and that generated the Question??

For mine, the rakes were slight. Two degrees would hardly be noticeable. Since this is not a scratch-built ship, I would think it would be disadvantageous to alter the rake significantly. I think the ship looks fine as it is. On the other hand, I did wind up drilling out the mizzen mast. It didn't fit properly. Probably as a result of my own previous error of installation. I would definitely see if there was some material on French ships of the 17th Century, though, before making any alterations. I know that the Vasa had a significant rake. I think for some others, you might want to check (as you are doing now). There seems to be a slew of different ways of doing things for different nationalities, different ship designers, and different times. Also, none of the other models of this ship seem to have any significant rake. Here is an old picture reproduction. I can't vouch for its accuracy, but it seems to line up with everything I've seen so far. Good luck. I'm interested to see what you come up with.