computers and model building

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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in days gone by computers and model ship building were worlds apart and one had very little to do with the other, today it is a different story computers have become a tool as much as a lathe or a Dremel or a table saw or any other tool.
I know very little about how computers run i am a software user and not a tech guy. Back when i was in the commerical and graphic arts there was the artists and designers and the tech teams one had no idea what the other did.
I am at a total loss why an old plotter will not work on a new computer. I load in the software plug in the plotter and nothing so i sit here stumped is it drivers, hardware, software or what? why won't old programs work on newer computers? i hear terms like a shell to run different bit programs on different computers. Why can't i network windows 7 to windows 10 home edition or is is because of a pro windows version what is going on? When running requirements are on a program does that mean it will not run unless it meets those requirements? are hard drives all the same and interchangeable in computers. When i took my computers in for repair i asked if the hard drives can be taken out and put in another newer computer and was told nope that won't work, why?
 
A program can interfere with the hardware, not fast enough or no drivers written. Or it can interfere with the system. A lot of New software will not work with old systems like XP or 7. Same like your Android system of your Phone. An app could crash on an older version.
Changing hardware could give problems to your Windows. Sometimes you have to reinstall Windows. A harddrive could be installed in a newer one. Only data, not your Windows. Only one point could be that the new motherboard don't have an IDE connection, only SATA. And your harddrive is an old IDE.
 
then there is the file extensions.
Learning the hard way when you buy a CNC carving machine and all the 3D files you created in one program is not reconized by the CNC machine. So you try to convert with "save as" and the message pops up that some features my not translate or there is nothing that will convert a file from one program to another.
or the pop up
this program does not reconize the computer really?
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
then there is the file extensions.
Learning the hard way when you buy a CNC carving machine and all the 3D files you created in one program is not reconized by the CNC machine. So you try to convert with "save as" and the message pops up that some features my not translate or there is nothing that will convert a file from one program to another.
or the pop up
this program does not reconize the computer really?
Click to expand...
This is like language. Files need to be translate to another language that the other program can read.
 
One of my old sayings is " to err is human, to foul up requires a computer"

I work for the military, and get tired of trying to open old emails to validate facts on a subject only to have the computer say I can't open the old email because that users security certificate has expired.
 
Google can be your best friend to solve these problems. And just renaming an extension will not solve the problem.
 
I go on Google to find a solution to a problem and find a half dozen fixes. My problem is that I don't trust any of them enough to download them. I'm afraid I'll get a virus.
 
then there is the file extensions.
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
Learning the hard way when you buy a CNC carving machine and all the 3D files you created in one program is not reconized by the CNC machine. So you try to convert with "save as" and the message pops up that some features my not translate or there is nothing that will convert a file from one program to another.
or the pop up
this program does not reconize the computer really?
Click to expand...
What exactly are you trying to do, if you don't mind me asking. I may be able to help.
CNC machines recognize what is called GCODE. It is pretty much universal, I believe.
Your CAM software should have the ability to create this cut file.
 
Don Case said:
I go on Google to find a solution to a problem and find a half dozen fixes. My problem is that I don't trust any of them enough to download them. I'm afraid I'll get a virus.
Click to expand...
Good decision. I don't download anything either, unless it's from a trusted site, and even then I run my antivirus software to see if there is a virus attached to the files.
 
Well...Dave, those questions cannot be answered simply because In the computer world, hardware and software will always run side-by-side. They communicate with each other with the machine language called 'assembler'. These communications are governed by Drivers - special instructions, about specific devices and what\how they can work. Behind the scene, when the user presses a keyboard key or drags the pointer of a mouse, the CPU (Central Processing Unit) processes thousands of calculations between zeros (0) and one (1). What we see on our monitors, is nothing to do with what actually goes behind the scene a gazillion of calculations in nanoseconds...just to show you what you are looking for.

So...what this has to do with your questions? A simple plotter designed to work with Hardware\Software in 1998 (Windows 98), most likely will not be going to work in modern technology, because the computer made in 2022, doesn't know what kind of device it is, and what this one has to do unless you provide instructions (drivers). Those are usually supplied alone with a device on CD (old time) or can be downloaded from the manufacturer's website. But that would be a much-simplified answer, why the plotter works on Windows 98 but doesn't work on Windows 10/11. So...why the heck I cannot find the drivers for the newest hardware\software. There are could be multiple answers: a product discontinued! This is why Chevrolet doesn't make Delta 88 model anymore. Another reason is the interface this plotter communicates with the PC is aged. One of the examples would be a 'parallel' port. This is often used to connect printers (in the dinosaur world). They have gone for good. In today's computers, you will hardly find a DVD-Rom drive...

Have you ever wondered why you cannot use an engine from Honda in Toyota cars? They are both car engines and both are made in Japan (actually not anymore) lol. They are used in cars and made based on the same principal\concepts. The answer is Incompatibility! The same idea to computers. Some hardware and software are incompatible based on the technology they are using. A computer has no idea what you plug in unless you provide drivers. Modern operating systems have a database of commonly used drives, therefore, when you plug mouse and keyboard the system recognizes them. When you buy software\hardware it actually says what OS it will support, and provide necessary support drivers.

hope you have a better idea now...
 
i don't know if the software is open ended now, but i bought a Carvewright CNC carving machine thinking i could use the 3D files i created, little did i know at the time Carvewright had its own software to run the machine and it's own software to create the files. the software was really bad, but you can get lots of files from Carvewright library but that is not what i wanted. This was a few years ago and i sold the machine.
Most of the software for CAD design and 3D modeling are interchangeable IF you purchase the pro versions the free-be versions do not allow you to save as or export some files.
one way aroud this take Sketchup for example the free versions will not import DWG or DXF but TurboCad will import DWG and DXF and you can export Sketchup files out of TurboCAD. So it is out of one CAD program then into another and out again and into another 3D modeling program. Taking the long way home. Then some CAD files just do not jive and will not open or import from program to program or from older to newer computers or programs. Nothing opens a .CDR file that has to be converted and the converted file is just down right ugly when you open it in AutoCad. Fusion360 requires newer computers, good graphic cards, lot of memory

it would be nice if computers were smart enough to reconize then convert and everything working together new and old, system to system, but they don't.

my one daughter wanted to buy a 3D printer having no clue how to create the files or use the software or what software to use or what that software requires it is not a simple thing to do
 
i do have a general idea the plotter was expensive and yes i came with a CD to install with its drivers but windows or the newer computer just did not reconize anything. Epson said sorry it is to old. So it is a shame a $1,500.00 plotter is a useless pile of junk even though it still works provided you can find a computer and system that likes it. or keep that old computer and windows 98 up and running just for the plotter.
 
My guess would be that your new computer came with a new version of Windows (Windows 11 maybe) and your plotter software does not recognize Windows 11. I would contact the manufacturer of your plotter and see if your existing software is compatible with your new operating and if it's not, do they have a version of the software that is compatible with the operating system of your new computer.

If you are using Windows, check in the Device Manager and see if your plotter is listed in the Printers section. If it's not listed there, you can try to scan for new devices and see if that helps.

Good luck !
 
It is my understanding that some higher end CNC equipment has its own computer system built into the entire ordeal and runs off of a propriatory software written only for that one set up - a.k.a. as closed system. An open system like a CNC machine would (lets say you bought it off the shelf), then it should either come with a set of (driver software) that allows the Machine to "handshake" with the OS (operating system whether it is Linux or Windows). Or the manufacture might want you to go to their website to download the correct Driver as there are 32bit and 64bit drivers and sometimes there will even be a list that shows compatible with Win7, XP, 10, and 11, linux and so forth. I am not sure if this is what you are up against, but it does sound like a lot of moving parts to this problem.
Also, the Driver (software for the Plotter or CNC) would have a drop down list allowing you to choose from which file extension you want to plot from .dxf, TCW, Adobe, STEP, and should have a list of at least 20 to 30 potential extensions to plot from. Again, it is the Driver software that will install on the PC granted you choose the correct one and install it and then making sure that what ever "connection" it needs like a COM port, USB, or Parallel port. Parallel ports and even COM ports are almost non existant on newer motherboards these days. Everything is USB now and starting to go USB-C.
 
sorry @Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) , I missed your question about the hard drives. Sometimes they will work, sometimes not. It depends on the interface the hard drive has to connect to the motherboard and operating systems and some other items. Your operating system is stored on the hard drive (we will assume you are not using mirroring or a raid system for hard drive storage). If you put that in your new computer and it is your primary drive, it will be booting to the old operating system and not the new operating system. The old operating system may not support the new hardware in your new computer. another alternative is that you may be able to put the old hard drive in your new computer (assuming it has the ability to support the old hard drive connector style). By doing that, you still have all your old data files then on your new computer. However, the new software may not support the old data format. :) The other possibility is that you can put your old hard drive in your new computer (again, assuming they have matching interfaces) and then format it with the new operating system. This will wipe all your old data off of the hard drive, but it will provide you with additional storage space. My guess would be that the person that waited on you didn't want to take the time to explain it to you. But don't take that personally. :)

Jeff
 
Dave, I strongly recommend giving your computer problems to a professional's hand. Don't attempt booting from the old HDD (hard drive), you most likely end up losing your data. Even if you have a similar HDD interface on the old HDD, it is more to just connect and start booting. Modern OS boots from UEFI and use GPT partitions rather than MBR in your old PC. I almost guarantee you will have BSOD (blue Screen Of Death), yea...the screen is absolutely blue... with Microsoft's explanations of the problem (you will not understand). :p

If absolutely necessary, professionals can boot your old system to dissimilar hardware. They are trained for this, and it is their job.

We need you to mill the wood!!
 
Agree with Jim above. Thanks for the disclaimer Jim. :)
If you have both computers and you need files off of the old one, you can boot up your old computer and save the files you want to a thumb drive. Then, shut down your old computer and plug the thumb drive into your new computer. Save the old files into a new folder. (if you don't know how, get someone to help you. ) There are other ways to do it, but this is probably the easiest.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
in days gone by computers and model ship building were worlds apart and one had very little to do with the other, today it is a different story computers have become a tool as much as a lathe or a Dremel or a table saw or any other tool.
I know very little about how computers run i am a software user and not a tech guy. Back when i was in the commerical and graphic arts there was the artists and designers and the tech teams one had no idea what the other did.
I am at a total loss why an old plotter will not work on a new computer. I load in the software plug in the plotter and nothing so i sit here stumped is it drivers, hardware, software or what? why won't old programs work on newer computers? i hear terms like a shell to run different bit programs on different computers. Why can't i network windows 7 to windows 10 home edition or is is because of a pro windows version what is going on? When running requirements are on a program does that mean it will not run unless it meets those requirements? are hard drives all the same and interchangeable in computers. When i took my computers in for repair i asked if the hard drives can be taken out and put in another newer computer and was told nope that won't work, why?
Click to expand...
Old plotters generally ran on RS-232...not typically supported in the older formats on newer systems. It was a old, slow serial communications protocol.
 
I agree, you really should never mix and match HDD with an old or new machine. That is because the CHIPSET drivers on the motherboard must talk to the HDD and other components. Yes, call up a computer specialist in your area. I have built about 4 PC's in the past and it is not for the faith of heart and can be quite complicated. The most complicated is choosing the parts that play well together. f.e. The motherboard electronics must match the type of CPU and RAM as they all work together. I would say that picking out the parts to build your PC is actually the most difficult. Especially in today's time so many components are not like we are used to. Anyway, this is one of my favorite subject and my apologies for rambling --- :rolleyes:
 
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