overview Can you get the most out of your Proxxon MF70?

[Jimsky]

I assure you that people were not born with milling skills, in fact, any skills to be precise (except sucking and smelling). When I bought my milling machine, I also have no knowledge of its use, just guess. However, step by step, I learn not just the basic operation but can do complex milling, and this mill becomes my desktop tool (it is always on the desktop)

As a rookie you are, I would not suggest you start milling gratings or spacer for shaves in the davits. Find as many scrap wood pieces as you can find, preferably different species (hard, medium, and soft). Fit them with a clamping set and make your first grove along the X-axis. Now it is important you feel the move\cut. Try moving faster\slower...Did you notice the difference? Now, the best wood to play with is hardwood: it will give a nice edge and smooth and clean results. Don't try to cut too deep, plunge the endmill a few mm at a time. Now, try to make a 'y'-axis cut. How about that? Now, try to shape the square inside the blank, this exercise required to use of both the 'X' and 'Y' axis. Note, there is a limb on each of the cranks. One full turn is 1.00mm try to make a cut with a specific size: outside and inside. Now, change the speed and notice the differences. It should keep you busy for a while...until you will learn and grasp the key movements. BTW, did you find the difference in cutting from right to left or vice versa? Did your right-hand hurts while turning?

But first... you would need to fine-tune your mill

 

[stuglo]

I think they are just screwing with you

 

[RogerD]

I assure you that people were not born with milling skills, in fact, any skills to be precise (except sucking and smelling). When I bought my milling machine, I also have no knowledge of its use, just guess. However, step by step, I learn not just the basic operation but can do complex milling, and this mill becomes my desktop tool (it is always on the desktop)

As a rookie you are, I would not suggest you start milling gratings or spacer for shaves in the davits. Find as many scrap wood pieces as you can find, preferably different species (hard, medium, and soft). Fit them with a clamping set and make your first grove along the X-axis. Now it is important you feel the move\cut. Try moving faster\slower...Did you notice the difference? Now, the best wood to play with is hardwood: it will give a nice edge and smooth and clean results. Don't try to cut too deep, plunge the endmill a few mm at a time. Now, try to make a 'y'-axis cut. How about that? Now, try to shape the square inside the blank, this exercise required to use of both the 'X' and 'Y' axis. Note, there is a limb on each of the cranks. One full turn is 1.00mm try to make a cut with a specific size: outside and inside. Now, change the speed and notice the differences. It should keep you busy for a while...until you will learn and grasp the key movements. BTW, did you find the difference in cutting from right to left or vice versa? Did your right-hand hurts while turning?

But first... you would need to fine-tune your mill

That is great advice Jim, we all have to start somewhere.

As to fine tuning, I have been reading your MF70 posts and I have already found problem areas with my mill. The vertical axis is “toy-like” and like many other people I have found it very inefficient. There is free play as I rotate the top handle, to crank down, where the measuring indicator moves but the stem does not. Cranking back on the handle to lift the bit is extremely stiff and so on. I know the advice is to change out the bearings but as stuglo @stuglo implies it makes me wary of messing with the mill.

Replacement bearings are not costly you would think Proxxon would fix a well known problem with their mill!

 

[Dematosdg]

That is great advice Jim, we all have to start somewhere.

As to fine tuning, I have been reading your MF70 posts and I have already found problem areas with my mill. The vertical axis is “toy-like” and like many other people I have found it very inefficient. There is free play as I rotate the top handle, to crank down, where the measuring indicator moves but the stem does not. Cranking back on the handle to lift the bit is extremely stiff and so on. I know the advice is to change out the bearings but as stuglo @stuglo implies it makes me wary of messing with the mill.

Replacement bearings are not costly you would think Proxxon would fix a well known problem with their mill!

The expensive Sherlines milling tools have the same free play and cranking the handle to lift the bit is also extremely stiff, as you wrote. The MF70 cost is ~400 and the Sherline ~1200 +.

A friend explained me the reason for the free play. I can't remember now the why. He has been milling for all his adult life and use all Sherline tools. He isn't worried at all about that free play. The lift issue is worst on the Sherline because the body is heavier than the MF70.

Bottom line ..... your MF70 is an excellent tool. I have both and I use more the MF70 than the sherline.

Daniel

 

[Dematosdg]

Moreover, adding the bearings as Jimsky explained was a piece of cake. I encourage you to do it for the lift issue, if that bothers you. I did it.

Daniel

 

[Jack Sparrow]

The question I have about the z-axis is that it isn't like x and y where you are constantly moving them. Even with a little bit of backlash, once you set the height, then you leave it alone. So that makes me wonder if it is worth the trouble of changing out the bearing. You could always manually measure the height with a good scale.

 

[Steef66]

The question I have about the z-axis is that it isn't like x and y where you are constantly moving them. Even with a little bit of backlash, once you set the height, then you leave it alone. So that makes me wonder if it is worth the trouble of changing out the bearing. You could always manually measure the height with a good scale.

The backlash will not go away with the bearing. It just help to turn the wheel. It is a game changer to mount the bearing in the z-axis. Turning will be very easy with just one finger.

 

[Philski]

That is great advice Jim, we all have to start somewhere.

As to fine tuning, I have been reading your MF70 posts and I have already found problem areas with my mill. The vertical axis is “toy-like” and like many other people I have found it very inefficient. There is free play as I rotate the top handle, to crank down, where the measuring indicator moves but the stem does not. Cranking back on the handle to lift the bit is extremely stiff and so on. I know the advice is to change out the bearings but as stuglo @stuglo implies it makes me wary of messing with the mill.

Replacement bearings are not costly you would think Proxxon would fix a well known problem with their mill!

The 'free play' in mills is actually known as backlash. Google 'Eliminating Backlash' and you'll find lots of sites with ideas and methods to reduce the error in you machining. Decent bearings, accurate lead screws and nuts all help.

 

[RogerD]

Lots of good information, which as a milling newcomer I find very helpful. I hope we have not hijacked your thread Jim but the header does say “Can you get the most out of your Proxxon MF70?”

The 'free play' in mills is actually known as backlash. Google 'Eliminating Backlash' and you'll find lots of sites with ideas and methods to reduce the error in you machining. Decent bearings, accurate lead screws and nuts all help.

I did some background reading this morning Phil to get an understanding of backlash, so thanks for that. I have a lot of assorted wood/s in my shop so I’ll be practicing milling basics to get a “feel” for the machine.

I also looked more closely at Stephan’s @Steef66 photo of his mill a few posts back. That wood top he attached to the mill table is a great idea. A sort of inverted router table. I also like the vernier scale on the side.

As for the bearings I’ll order them and then ask for help and pick everyone’s brains, if that’s ok .

 

[Jack Sparrow]

The backlash will not go away with the bearing. It just help to turn the wheel. It is a game changer to mount the bearing in the z-axis. Turning will be very easy with just one finger.

Good mod for someone that likes to play with that thing, but I think I will leave it alone.

 

[Jimsky]

I hope we have not hijacked your thread Jim but the header does say “Can you get the most out of your Proxxon MF70?”

NOT AT ALL! This topic was designed in mind for everyone with ideas for improving the Proxxon Mill. I just happened to share mine first. All ideas are welcome as comments and suggestions as well.

By tuning, I don't necessarily mean upgrades. Yes, the thrust bearings will make the turning job much easier, but as Stephan mentioned, it will not remove the backslash. There are things you can improve without additional cost. The mill comes from the factory assembled, but what about lubricant? What about the backslash on the X and Y-axis? You can tune those and at the same time put fresh lubricant.
With your coordinate table attached to the mill base, hold the X-axis table in your hand and try to move sideways, and up and down. Did you feel the backslash? If yes, you can adjust the tension using the three set screws designed for each axis. Loosen the set screws and push the brass plate against the housing, such as lossen\tighten the tension and removing the backslash. If you untighten the set screws, you can push the brass plate on either side. Put the lubricant and push it back again in the slot. Just carefully position the plate, on one side there are notches guides, they have to look at you. Be careful to tighten it too much, you will have a hard time turning the wheel Well...that's it does it cost you anything? Maybe a lubricant... BTW, I use the MultiLUB by STIHL. One tube lasts a lifetime, you need just a dub. But any machinery lubricants will do.

 

[RogerD]

Thanks Jim.

 

[TrainGuy]

Hello -

A brief intro - have new MF70 for model railroading (1:160) and joined this forum as the info on using this mill was difficult to find. I’m trying to figure out very simple steps such nomenclature, adjusting to max precision, setting up the vise, holding odd shaped work, end milling and precision drilling

My first simple ( well it seemed to me a first) project is drilling accurate holes for metal grab irons on the ends on a diesel locomotive ‘a short and long hoods. So holding styrene plastic, getting the exact spacing etc. Later will try milling alloy locomotive frame for speaker, decoder and wiring.

You all have a great supportive atmosphere I’m glad I’ve found this forum and specific thread. I’ll be reading and studying what this group has learned and freely shares.

And down the road I have a few waterline ships and boats to build for my 2 harbors (Whittier AK and Seward AK ) as well. A USCG cutter, sea going tug, rail barge, a very small container ship, a container crane, Alaska commercial fishing boats. The barge will be operational - that is have functional rails so and expected first project.

Probably common knowledge but news to me - https://www.usovo.de/en/search?q=Mf70. Far more than I want to spend or do but will keep it in the back of my mind as I learn the basics. Thought the dust extractor looks interesting. Shipping the Colorado is a bit prohibitive.

Liked the suggestions of “just do it” and I’ve started with a block of basswood and quickly found a small brush to keep the shavings away was essential. Milled two sides referencing the fixed face and was pleased to see 90 degrees and very smooth surfaces. Extremely basic but I needed to start somewhere.

Thank you allowing me to post and lurk and learn

Bob in Denver

 

[TrainGuy]

Interesting Stephan and a possible use for them but I’m wondering what purpose Proxxon had in mind when they were packaged with the step clamp blocks.

The larger nuts fit in the T slots of the mill table and those 1.6cm x 3mm bolts are threaded to match those nuts as well as the smaller ones. So now I am wondering if they are for an accessory that remains nameless . By the way the very small, limited manual gives no clue.

Thanks.

Thanks for posting as this was my first question out of the box. What are these for and the microscopic one page drawings were little help. Thanks again for reviewing these critical basics

 

[TrainGuy]

Did you see this video?

He added a set of bearings to the z-axis. You can see this at about 2 minutes into the video. I ordered this bearings and ad them to the z-axis. Turning the adjustment wheel of the z-axis is very heavy and your cutter moves back and forth when you do this. But after adding these bearings, it goes very smoothly. I can turn the wheel with one finger.
Add a bearing above and below the plastic cap that is fastened with 4 socket-head screws (2 bearings in total) and put the whole back. It takes some effort to loosen and tighten the locknut. And the existing brass ring that sits between the locknut and the cap is no longer needed.
Be sure to add bearing grease to the shaft and bearings when reassembling.
I ordered these bearings on Ali-express. F6-12M You get 10 of them, so you can also provide the x,y-table with bearings. But in the video, he explains that this does not add much to an improving effect. So I did not do this.

Highly recommended for upgrading your MF-70.

View attachment 297473

Hello -

Bit late jumping in here....

Another newbie question: Are all F6-12 M the same? So that is the only info needed to order the correct part? Or is thickness a variable? I see 4.5 mm specified
for this F6-12 M as in this example from https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/221000531138/?HissuCode=F6-12M

thanks

Bob

Configured Specifications​

Bearing Ring Shape	Thrust Ball	Materials of Inner and Outer Ring	Steel
Bearing Style	Open Type	Outer Ring Type	Flat
Precision	Grade 0	I.D. d(Ø)	6
Outer Diameter D(Ø)	12	Width B(mm)	4.5
Basic Load Rating Dynamic Rating(N)	1579	Specifications/Environment	Standard
Load Direction	Thrust	Number of Bearing Ring Rows	Single Row

 

[Steef66]

Hello -

Bit late jumping in here....

Another newbie question: Are all F6-12 M the same? So that is the only info needed to order the correct part? Or is thickness a variable? I see 4.5 mm specified
for this F6-12 M as in this example from https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/221000531138/?HissuCode=F6-12M

thanks

Bob

Configured Specifications​

Bearing Ring Shape	Thrust Ball	Materials of Inner and Outer Ring	Steel
Bearing Style	Open Type	Outer Ring Type	Flat
Precision	Grade 0	I.D. d(Ø)	6
Outer Diameter D(Ø)	12	Width B(mm)	4.5
Basic Load Rating Dynamic Rating(N)	1579	Specifications/Environment	Standard
Load Direction	Thrust	Number of Bearing Ring Rows	Single Row

They are the same od is 12 and id is 6

 

[TrainGuy]

Hi Tobias, I think you misunderstood me regarding a bigger lock screw. I referred to the M3 one in the Z-axis slide adjustment. I've now fitted an M5 thumb screw which now locks the cutter depth... Here's a photo.

Stuart

View attachment 312264

Stuart -

I assure you that people were not born with milling skills, in fact, any skills to be precise (except sucking and smelling). When I bought my milling machine, I also have no knowledge of its use, just guess. However, step by step, I learn not just the basic operation but can do complex milling, and this mill becomes my desktop tool (it is always on the desktop)

As a rookie you are, I would not suggest you start milling gratings or spacer for shaves in the davits. Find as many scrap wood pieces as you can find, preferably different species (hard, medium, and soft). Fit them with a clamping set and make your first grove along the X-axis. Now it is important you feel the move\cut. Try moving faster\slower...Did you notice the difference? Now, the best wood to play with is hardwood: it will give a nice edge and smooth and clean results. Don't try to cut too deep, plunge the endmill a few mm at a time. Now, try to make a 'y'-axis cut. How about that? Now, try to shape the square inside the blank, this exercise required to use of both the 'X' and 'Y' axis. Note, there is a limb on each of the cranks. One full turn is 1.00mm try to make a cut with a specific size: outside and inside. Now, change the speed and notice the differences. It should keep you busy for a while...until you will learn and grasp the key movements. BTW, did you find the difference in cutting from right to left or vice versa? Did your right-hand hurts while turning?

But first... you would need to fine-tune your mill

I assure you that people were not born with milling skills, in fact, any skills to be precise (except sucking and smelling). When I bought my milling machine, I also have no knowledge of its use, just guess. However, step by step, I learn not just the basic operation but can do complex milling, and this mill becomes my desktop tool (it is always on the desktop)

As a rookie you are, I would not suggest you start milling gratings or spacer for shaves in the davits. Find as many scrap wood pieces as you can find, preferably different species (hard, medium, and soft). Fit them with a clamping set and make your first grove along the X-axis. Now it is important you feel the move\cut. Try moving faster\slower...Did you notice the difference? Now, the best wood to play with is hardwood: it will give a nice edge and smooth and clean results. Don't try to cut too deep, plunge the endmill a few mm at a time. Now, try to make a 'y'-axis cut. How about that? Now, try to shape the square inside the blank, this exercise required to use of both the 'X' and 'Y' axis. Note, there is a limb on each of the cranks. One full turn is 1.00mm try to make a cut with a specific size: outside and inside. Now, change the speed and notice the differences. It should keep you busy for a while...until you will learn and grasp the key movements. BTW, did you find the difference in cutting from right to left or vice versa? Did your right-hand hurts while turning?

But first... you would need to fine-tune your mill

Jim -

Thanks for all the suggestions to "just do it". Encouraged me to try to end mill basswood, (next up walnut, some type of alloy and then brass stock) , mock up work holding for oddly shaped styrene body shells, and drilling precise holes the last few evenings. Nothing like reality for feedback.

You end with a "fine-tune" comment that I'm struggling without knowing where or how to start. The "traming the table" (? terminology) that I've seen to make the z coaxial (?) (to me 90 degrees to x and y) uses a special dial caliper that fits in the spindle, and these are all for larger mills and expensive tools. So how do y'all make sure that x, y and z are all 90? I have the table, and then the precision vise which I intend to have on more-or-less permanently. To set the vise I used my machinist square. I think a "edge finder" would be the proper tool but none I see come in 3 mm shafts. What other tools and techniques are appropriate to the MF 70? I see all types of calipers available for machine setup but don't even know where to place them as a fixed point of reference. Finally, if I find the post / z is out of alignment how do you tweak it? A little hammer tap? Similar question for x and y. If I can somehow figure out how to measure precisely and find they are wonky, do I slightly loosen bolts, tap, and tighten or ? I don't think my work will really require an extreme level of precision but then I'm completely new to this. So your "first...fine-tune your mill" really strikes home. Thanks!

I'm getting a tremendous appreciation for the skill and knowledge of hobbyist machinists and their professional brethren.


Related to the vise - I lose a bit of z height travel by having the vise there. I've seen 2" blocks offered from USA for around $50 and another (nicer looking) from Greece as I recall. Not sure I need the z and don't recall seeing that discussed here. Anyone tried that? If I get the block are other modifications needed?

Bit much for one reply, maybe this should be another post- but here goes ; I'm test drilling #80 twist drill holes in styrene for 18" 1:160 grab irons. My tests in styrene at 5000 rpm have melting and a lot of styrene sticking to the drill after just a few holes. So I could wait between holes ( I only need to drill 0.1" deep) and let the bit cool ??? I see "router speed controllers". Would a speed controller work to slow the spindle to below 5000 rpm? They are $20-50 ones available on the Big River website. I think the MF runs so fast as to compensate for the tiny amount of torque it can make (my mechanical understanding is primitive). So slowing it down would not normally be a good thing, but for styrene that can't stand the heat what are my choices? The planetary gear from Germany would be awesome, but I don't want to pay $400 or more to drill holes. Guess I could think up some "use cases" to spread out that major upgrade cost across more operations. Right now I can't drill styrene and assume milling would also be a huge sticky mess without slowing it down way below 5000 rpm - though styrene milling doesn't seem like a likely "Use case". Perhaps the correct and $$ answer is to get a mini drill press for the #80 drilling and yet another x-y table, precision vise rather than try an make the MF 70 slow down??

thanks for any and all ideas and suggestions.

Bob in Denver

 

[Jimsky]

So how do y'all make sure that x, y and z are all 90? I have the table, and then the precision vise which I intend to have on more-or-less permanently. To set the vise I used my machinist square. I think a "edge finder" would be the proper tool but none I see come in 3 mm shafts. What other tools and techniques are appropriate to the MF 70?

With the same machinists square we use to position vises on MF70, it is hard to ensure that 90 degrees to x and y are achieved, this should be done and ensured by the factory.

 

[TrainGuy]

Greetings folks. As promised here are some tests with a dial indicator. For comparison reasons, I have made two groups of tests. The first group will be testing the ER11 adapter (I bought and used it before). The second group will be the ER11 spindle, which I was discussing in the above post.

ER11 adapter tests. This adapter is inserted on the original threaded spindle and tightened with two side set screws.

Test#1 On top of the adapter

Test#2 at the middle of the adapter

Test#3 at the end of the mill

As you can see, all three tests are reporting errors in precision. In fact, the errors are 20 hundred of an mm, for such an adapter, it is somewhat a lot. With such a tool, it will be difficult to archive precision., but it will be acceptable to even the flat surfaces.

ER11 Spindle test. This is the game-changer. You need to replace the original one which comes with Proxxon MF70. Worth every penny spent, and I am really happy with this change. bear in mind that you will need to buy good quality collets. The good thing, is you don't have to buy the whole set. Buy only the one you will use most. Example: 1.0mm, 2.0mm, 3.0mm, 1/8' (3.175mm), 4.0mm and 5.0mm. Endmills with larger shank sizes I wouldn't recommend using with this motor.

Test#1 On top of the spindle

Test#2 at the end of the mill

Now, you obviously see the difference. The dial indicators barely move, if it not moved at all. I am very happy with those tests and will expect precision milling in the near future. Here are the collets I use, I bout them here.

4.51US $ 46% OFF|Free Shipping High precision ER11 Accuracy 0.008mm Spring Collet for CNC Milling Machine Engraving Lathe Tool|Tool Holder| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

View attachment 297775

I have great experience upgrading Proxxon MF70 and was rewarded with great results. Do you get most of your MF70?

They are the same od is 12 and id is 6

Steef66 -

Thank you for your quick response and confirming the bearing specs so I can order.

 

[TrainGuy]

I would never treat it as the solution, but it is an option and workaround to use 4~5.00mm endmills. ER11 collet system can accept 1.00mm - 7.00mm mills. However, as you mentioned above, this will put lots of pressure on the motor. I would never suggest to anyone using this convertor for steel. Maybe copper or brass (I will have to test), but for woodworking, it works great and have somewhat precise results.

If for any chance you would make permanent modifications to your Proxxon MF70, also if you are capable and have tools in your shop. Check this out. He has a number of videos about improvements for MF70. He is a Ukrainian guy but speaks English.

These are great videos - I'll need to watch and take notes.

Odd that the forum is essentially creating the "missing manual" for the MF70. While the info is on the web, it takes a newbie a great deal of time to navigate. Appreciate this forum's links to videos and other sources.

Over time would it make sense to split the thread into parts? Maybe arranged by subtopics - tuning, type of upgrades, work holding, "jigs", safety, dust collection, simple starter projects, ? I don't know the forum tools and protocols so maybe this is an available feature and I simply haven't figured it out yet.

thanks for all who have left great info already. Searched the web and this spot was the best I found for discussing the tool.

Bob in Denver