ratlines on shrouds up to the lubbers hole?

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IMG_4347.jpegIMG_4346.jpegI’m getting confused as to whether ratlines on the shrouds continue pass the point where the futttock shrouds meet the main shrouds. Some images show no ratlines at this point. Some images show ratlines continue pass this point and also continue on the futtock shrouds.
I’m just wondering if there are no ratlines in the main shrouds pass the point where the futtocks meet, then how did the ‘lubber’ get through the lubbers hole?
Hope this doesn’t sound too confusing.
 
I imagine it would depend. If the distance between adjacent shroud cables is still not less than the width of the human foot and/or the palm of the hand, there would be a good sense to install the ratlines there.
 
How did a lubber manage to reach the lubbers hole without ratlines available? I presume, ‘tough’ you just have to go outside up the futtocks!
 
How old is the expression lubber's hole?

I wonder how often "lubbers" actually went up through the hole in the top, since on many ships it is too small to allow a human to pass (surviving tops and other data from the 17th century, for example, indicate lubber's holes were only large enough to allow the shrouds to pass through). It may well be an expression of contempt related to imagined behaviour, not a real thing.

I can imagine that on 20th-century training ships, ratlines to allow the use of the lubber's hole may have been added as a safety precaution, although I have no evidence to back up this supposition.

Fred
 
My understanding is that the term "lubber" is an archaic English word that means clumsy or ineffective. So I guess if you weren't agile (or crazy) enough to climb up from the outside you could be considered a lubber?
 
Going the normal route, over the outer edge of the top, is less trouble than most people suppose. I have done it often enough in my career, and even though I do really enjoy heights, I found the process easy to learn. The main things that worry neophytes are not being able to see where you are going, so you have to get that first handhold above the rim of the top without being able to see it, and the awkward sense of leaning back and out. Beginners often freeze at that point, until they learn to trust their grip and arm strength.

Going through the lubber's hole is not exactly a cakewalk by comparison. To get to it, the climber has to go around the futtock shrouds in a very cluttered space. If the ship is rigged with catharpins, those help. The space under the top, between the futtock shrouds and the main shrouds, is a little claustrophobic. Going over the edge of the top is much simpler, faster, and once you get the hang of it, more secure. As the bosun on Kalmar Nyckel often reminds new climbers, never let go with both hands at once!

Fred
 
Going the normal route, over the outer edge of the top, is less trouble than most people suppose. I have done it often enough in my career, and even though I do really enjoy heights, I found the process easy to learn. The main things that worry neophytes are not being able to see where you are going, so you have to get that first handhold above the rim of the top without being able to see it, and the awkward sense of leaning back and out. Beginners often freeze at that point, until they learn to trust their grip and arm strength.

Going through the lubber's hole is not exactly a cakewalk by comparison. To get to it, the climber has to go around the futtock shrouds in a very cluttered space. If the ship is rigged with catharpins, those help. The space under the top, between the futtock shrouds and the main shrouds, is a little claustrophobic. Going over the edge of the top is much simpler, faster, and once you get the hang of it, more secure. As the bosun on Kalmar Nyckel often reminds new climbers, never let go with both hands at once!

Fred
Thanks for that Fred--I can sympathise with freezing while leaning back and out, especially if the mast is moving back and forth!:D
 
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