What is the history of double POF models?

[Short John Bronze]

Back in 1954, as a mere powder monkey, I was given a copy of the Hobbies Handbook and a kit for making one of the smallest (and cheapest!) models: the Bonaventure. I used to spend many hours ogling the range of larger ship model kits that were offered in the catalogue but were too expensive to buy.
Back in 1994 I came across the then current copy of the the same magazine and found that the same models were still on offer! In a fit of nostalgia I bought a kit for the "Great Harry" and the plans for my first model "Bonaventure".
The hulls on all of these models were to be carved from solid wood as two halves glued to either side of a keel.
I made a start on the "Great Harry" (picture below) but never finished it.
When were the first model kits introduced that use the 'modern' double plank on frame construction?. In the Greenwich Maritime Museum there are many old ship models. Some are described as being "block" models (presumably carved from solid wood) while others are "plank on Frame". I assume in the latter case there was just a single layer of planks and the frame would literally be a frame and not complete bulkhead sections.
I have noticed in the build logs in SOS that some modellers fill in the spaces between bulkhead with blocks (often balsa) and shape them to the hull. In such cases are the first layer planks necessary or could one go straight to the final layer?
With the aid of the WWW I recently acquired a copy of the original 1954 Hobbies Handbook. Where have the last seven decades gone?
Some supplementary, frivolous questions.
Could CNC be used to cut half hulls to be used as bases for final layer planking only?
Has anyone ever bought a plastic ship kit to provide a hull then completed the model in wood?
Pictured below: The acquired 1954 handbook and the pages I lusted over; The "bonaventure" plans showing the minimal assistance given to shape the hull; The long neglected "great Harry"

 

[Thomas Marocke]

Hi Short John Bronze!

To the best of my knowledge, commercial historic ship modeling for the hobbyist began during the 1970s. Before that, it was very difficult to get ship drawings. In addition, the damage of the 2nd World War still had to be reworked. The Frenchman Jean Boudriot published his four volumes of the 74 gun ship and gave interested people the inside into the construction of a wooden ship. Other historical reference works, which are generally known today, were difficult to obtain.



Milled wooden hulls of balsa wood were made and can still be found on the internet. The company Mamoli still offers today under Mini Mamoli milled beech wood hulls.

POF modeling exploded a few years ago with kit making using laser technology and the internet being made available in every home.
The embellishment of Revell models by wooden decks has taken on the company www.hismodel.com.
szkutnik-model.pl offers plastic hulls, which can be completely planked with wood and further processed.

Today, there are all kinds of offers for the modeler both from books and various model building approaches. The accessories market is also overwhelming.

Best regards
Thomas

 

[Short John Bronze]

H Short John Bronze!

To the best of my knowledge, commercial historic ship modeling for the hobbyist began during the 1970s. Before that, it was very difficult to get ship drawings. In addition, the damage of the 2nd World War still had to be reworked. The Frenchman Jean Boudriot published his four volumes of the 74 gun ship and gave interested people the inside into the construction of a wooden ship. Other historical reference works, which are generally known today, were difficult to obtain.

View attachment 349259

Milled wooden hulls of balsa wood were made and can still be found on the internet. The company Mamoli still offers today under Mini Mamoli milled beech wood hulls.

POF modeling exploded a few years ago with kit making using laser technology and the internet being made available in every home.
The embellishment of Revell models by wooden decks has taken on the company www.hismodel.com.
szkutnik-model.pl offers plastic hulls, which can be completely planked with wood and further processed.

Today, there are all kinds of offers for the modeler both from books and various model building approaches. The accessories market is also overwhelming.

Best regards
Thomas

Thanks for a quick response. That is interesting: I hadn't associated the expansion of ship modelling with the advent of the internet but it seems logical.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i have been building model ship back in the early 1960s and would put the new British music invasion on the old turn table and build models, the Beatles, Kinks, rolling stones, the Who, Herman's Hermits.
Back then the only kits available were solid hulls from Model shipways, Scientific Models and Blue Jacket then came Coker Craft and imported European kits advertised as plank on frame museum quality ship model kits some time in the early 1970s my first kit planked hull was from Billings. Actually they were not plank on frame but plank on bulkhead.

I have noticed in the build logs in SOS that some modellers fill in the spaces between bulkhead with blocks (often balsa) and shape them to the hull. In such cases are the first layer planks necessary or could one go straight to the final layer?​

that was done because the bulkheads were spaced to far apart and a single layer of planking would lay flat between the bulkheads. Filling in between the bulkheads gave a builder a solid surface to lay the final planking. so you do not need to double plank the hull. Also filling in the space gives you a true shape of the hull.
Could CNC be used to cut half hulls to be used as bases for final layer planking only?

Model Expo still offers solid hulls as a matter of fact the Sultana i am building is a redo of the original solid hull kit.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

POF models that are filled with balsa blocks between the frames could be covered with the finish planking only, but the soft nature of balsa would make the hull prone to dents and punctures. I had considered doing it with my current model, but decides to add the first layer in basswood and left over linden wood to ensure the integrity of the hull and make it easier to see flat spots and hard bends in the hull shape. That was because the colors were more homogenous on the first planking.

Hull appearance with filler blocks and wood filler in the low spots. Final planking would have to be thick to be strong enough for the upper sides.


Hull appearance after first planking and sanded smooth. Because filler was used prior to planking, the surface is properly shaped and ready for final planking.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i may be wrong but i am thinking the first plank on frame kit was offered by Model Shipways the Emma C. Berry and the first plank on frame building plans were by Harold Hahn.
Today it is companies in China that are taking the plank on frame kit to a whole new level.

​

 

[Short John Bronze]

i have been building model ship back in the early 1960s and would put the new British music invasion on the old turn table and build models, the Beatles, Kinks, rolling stones, the Who, Herman's Hermits.
Back then the only kits available were solid hulls from Model shipways, Scientific Models and Blue Jacket then came Coker Craft and imported European kits advertised as plank on frame museum quality ship model kits some time in the early 1970s my first kit planked hull was from Billings. Actually they were not plank on frame but plank on bulkhead.

I have noticed in the build logs in SOS that some modellers fill in the spaces between bulkhead with blocks (often balsa) and shape them to the hull. In such cases are the first layer planks necessary or could one go straight to the final layer?​

that was done because the bulkheads were spaced to far apart and a single layer of planking would lay flat between the bulkheads. Filling in between the bulkheads gave a builder a solid surface to lay the final planking. so you do not need to double plank the hull. Also filling in the space gives you a true shape of the hull.
Could CNC be used to cut half hulls to be used as bases for final layer planking only?

Model Expo still offers solid hulls as a matter of fact the Sultana i am building is a redo of the original solid hull kit.

Thanks for the interesting feedback. I fear my early modelling would have been accompanied my my Mum listening to Mario Lanza and Perry Como on a valve radio.

 

[Short John Bronze]

POF models that are filled with balsa blocks between the frames could be covered with the finish planking only, but the soft nature of balsa would make the hull prone to dents and punctures. I had considered doing it with my current model, but decides to add the first layer in basswood and left over linden wood to ensure the integrity of the hull and make it easier to see flat spots and hard bends in the hull shape. That was because the colors were more homogenous on the first planking.

Hull appearance with filler blocks and wood filler in the low spots. Final planking would have to be thick to be strong enough for the upper sides.
View attachment 349281

Hull appearance after first planking and sanded smooth. Because filler was used prior to planking, the surface is properly shaped and ready for final planking.
View attachment 349282

I have acquired a block of lime (linden/basswood) about 400x250x50mm. I thought that on my next model I might cut slices - say 10x50 mm - and cut sections to fit between pairs of bulkheads at their outer edges.. The wood is very easy to work so it could then be shaped to the bulkhead profiles and be solid enough to support the final planking (shaped of course!) . A sort of quasi solid hull but not too heavy or expensive. That sounds as though I am veering towards a scratch build if I don't use either first or second layer planks from a kit.

 

[Thomas Marocke]

Hi Short John Bronze!

Keep in mind that each applied plank, whether single or double layer, changes the contours (width of the ship on the frames).

Best regards
Thomas

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I have acquired a block of lime (linden/basswood) about 400x250x50mm. I thought that on my next model I might cut slices - say 10x50 mm - and cut sections to fit between pairs of bulkheads at their outer edges.. The wood is very easy to work so it could then be shaped to the bulkhead profiles and be solid enough to support the final planking (shaped of course!) . A sort of quasi solid hull but not too heavy or expensive. That sounds as though I am veering towards a scratch build if I don't use either first or second layer planks from a kit.

As long as the blocks between the bulkheads are thick enough to allow removal of material when you sand the hull to the final shape without leaving thin spots or opening holes. The blocks on my hull below were added in large sections where the hull was flat and smaller blocks for areas of sharper curvature. This work was done freehand without measurements with miter cuts made by eye. It didn't have to be neat because two layers of planking were going over the top of it.

 

[Norgale]

Interesting conversation about double planking. I don't know of any real ships that were double planked but that doesn't mean there weren't any. Probably a lot of ships were double planked. In my model making, however, I have double planked almost every model I made. The first layer of planks was usually strips of balsa or bass wood. Bass wood is best. After the planks were all installed for the first layer I put masking tape over the outside of the whole hull and then sloshed a diluted mixture of epoxy inside the hull. I did this in small batches so that the joints between the planks were filled with epoxy and the tape on the outside kept the epoxy from running out where the joints weren't real tight. It also seals the entire inside of the boat and fills any crooks and crannies when it's dried. This makes for a water tight hull that can go in the water if you want to do that. Great for RC boats. After the epoxy dries I remove the masking tape from the hull and sand the hull smooth. The second layer of planks is usually something like mahogany or walnut with planks that are thinner than the first layer and not too wide. That way I get a nice mahogany colored hull with good strength underneath to hold the boat together. The second layer of planks can be of any kind of wood at any thickness but I just use thin stuff because it's easier to work with. Lightly sand the second layer and stain or just use clear to bring out the wood grain.

As for filling the spaces between bulkheads or frames, if you have to do that then there are not enough bulkheads or frames. I would trace off a frame or bulkhead that was bigger than the space would require, glue it in place and then sand it down to match the frames on either side of it. Take a look at the "group builds" on this forum and see how close the frames are. Some are even doubled for strength and have only inches between frames on the real ships. This was super strong and provided lots of surface to bolt the planking. The more frames or bulkheads the stronger the hull will be. It's shape will fair out nicer too.

 

[NMBROOK]

Interesting conversation about double planking. I don't know of any real ships that were double planked but that doesn't mean there weren't any. Probably a lot of ships were double planked. In my model making, however, I have double planked almost every model I made. The first layer of planks was usually strips of balsa or bass wood. Bass wood is best. After the planks were all installed for the first layer I put masking tape over the outside of the whole hull and then sloshed a diluted mixture of epoxy inside the hull. I did this in small batches so that the joints between the planks were filled with epoxy and the tape on the outside kept the epoxy from running out where the joints weren't real tight. It also seals the entire inside of the boat and fills any crooks and crannies when it's dried. This makes for a water tight hull that can go in the water if you want to do that. Great for RC boats. After the epoxy dries I remove the masking tape from the hull and sand the hull smooth. The second layer of planks is usually something like mahogany or walnut with planks that are thinner than the first layer and not too wide. That way I get a nice mahogany colored hull with good strength underneath to hold the boat together. The second layer of planks can be of any kind of wood at any thickness but I just use thin stuff because it's easier to work with. Lightly sand the second layer and stain or just use clear to bring out the wood grain.

As for filling the spaces between bulkheads or frames, if you have to do that then there are not enough bulkheads or frames. I would trace off a frame or bulkhead that was bigger than the space would require, glue it in place and then sand it down to match the frames on either side of it. Take a look at the "group builds" on this forum and see how close the frames are. Some are even doubled for strength and have only inches between frames on the real ships. This was super strong and provided lots of surface to bolt the planking. The more frames or bulkheads the stronger the hull will be. It's shape will fair out nicer too.

Interestly, James Septon in his book on Sovereign of the Seas mentions documentation explaining the vessel was double planked with a layer of Oakum between.

Kind Regards

Nigel

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

Interesting conversation about double planking. I don't know of any real ships that were double planked but that doesn't mean there weren't any. Probably a lot of ships were double planked. In my model making, however, I have double planked almost every model I made. The first layer of planks was usually strips of balsa or bass wood. Bass wood is best.

Basswood has the advantage of being cheap, but is large grained an soft. Try linden wood. It has a finer grain, sands smoother, is a bit stronger and holds bends well when wetted and hot-ironed (steamed). I prefer it over basswood when I can get it.

As for double planking, many ships had an extra planking layer added to the sides using a practice called girdling. The reason for this was to strength the hull and to change the shape of the hull by increasing it's displacement for improving stability and handling while sailing. Many ships were modified this way later in their lifespan to make them last longer.



Old planks near the waterline are remove, and vertical furring timbers were fastened over the original hull frames, then another layer of planking and new wales were applied.

 

[Short John Bronze]

I thought basswood, linden and lime were the same thing. A web search yielded:
"The tree is known as linden for the European species, and basswood for North American species. In Britain and Ireland they are commonly called lime trees, although they are not related to the citrus lime."
Perhaps the US and European "species" differ slightly.

 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

I thought basswood, linden and lime were the same thing. A web search yielded:
"The tree is known as linden for the European species, and basswood for North American species. In Britain and Ireland they are commonly called lime trees, although they are not related to the citrus lime."
Perhaps the US and European "species" differ slightly.

The wood is different between the continents. Walnut is also quite different. American walnut is harder, stronger, and darker in color. European walnut has more character is is lighter tan-brown as opposed to chocolate brown. The properties of wood can very a bit even for the same species depending on the soil and climate. I always preferred linden over American basswood.

 

[Philski]

The wood is different between the continents. Walnut is also quite different. American walnut is harder, stronger, and darker in color. European walnut has more character is is lighter tan-brown as opposed to chocolate brown. The properties of wood can very a bit even for the same species depending on the soil and climate. I always preferred linden over American basswood.

Look at the Wood Database for more reading fun! (www.wood-database.com)