New to ship modelling

[JanetH]

My husband bought the Mantua Black Falcon ship model 768 relatively cheaply off of ebay a couple of years ago so he could do the project with our 12 year old son. He started but soon realized, being new to ship modelling, that this was going to be more difficult than he expected, so he bought a simpler project not related to ship building which he and our son enjoyed putting together. I decided I would look into doing the Black Falcon with our son since we already have the kit. Well, being new to this myself I didn't know what to expect. What I found appears to be a very old version of the kit, possibly 1979 as there is a 1979 kit catalog in the box . It has two large papers showing the building plans. One of these has what seems to me very minimal instructions in multiple languages one of which, luckily, is English. There is a small 4 page booklet not in English which when I try to translate it on google translate says it is Dutch. This also gives some instructions but at least in the small part that I have translated seems to be in a slightly different order than the other instructions. It also contains a list of the items in the box with dimensions which have been very helpful to figure out what the various pieces are. I have looked for any threads for doing this model and came across another newbie on a different ship modelling site who got this kit for a present, and it was suggested he start with a different model first. The only place I have found anyone mentioning actually doing this model is on this site, where Anthony (booted) said he was returning to work on this model after 5 years. He showed pictures which looked really good and are helpful. Well, I know this all makes my success at this difficult, but I am going to try. At worst, the ship won't look as I would like, but I will have spent time with my son, but I am hoping for even better than that, so I decided to join this group in hopes that you might be willing to help guide me as I go through this process. Thanks in advance for any help.

I started following the instructions and have glued the frames to the keel. The instructions say to then plank the hull, but it doesn't say how. In my search to learn how to do this I have learned about fairing the frames and about a bearding line and needing to cut a rabbet line. None of this was mentioned in the instructions.
So my questions are:
1. Are all kits meant to cut a rabbet line? Does the double dotted line on the building plan (see attachment) at the front of the ship that extends as a single dotted line along the bottom of the ship to the back mean I am supposed to cut a rabbet line or does it mean something else? I assume this line is showing where the planks are to end and if so, how are the planks to end past frame 1 over block 9 to frame 8 as there is no dotted line?
2. Is it even possible for me to cut a rabbet line now that the frames are already glued?
3. On frames number 1 and 2 (2nd attachment) does the dotted line at the bottom of each mean that part is ultimately supposed to be sanded away to get to the solid line?

I am sorry for these very naive questions but again appreciate your help.

 

[Uwek]

My husband bought the Mantua Black Falcon ship model 768 relatively cheaply off of ebay a couple of years ago so he could do the project with our 12 year old son. He started but soon realized, being new to ship modelling, that this was going to be more difficult than he expected, so he bought a simpler project not related to ship building which he and our son enjoyed putting together. I decided I would look into doing the Black Falcon with our son since we already have the kit. Well, being new to this myself I didn't know what to expect. What I found appears to be a very old version of the kit, possibly 1979 as there is a 1979 kit catalog in the box . It has two large papers showing the building plans. One of these has what seems to me very minimal instructions in multiple languages one of which, luckily, is English. There is a small 4 page booklet not in English which when I try to translate it on google translate says it is Dutch. This also gives some instructions but at least in the small part that I have translated seems to be in a slightly different order than the other instructions. It also contains a list of the items in the box with dimensions which have been very helpful to figure out what the various pieces are. I have looked for any threads for doing this model and came across another newbie on a different ship modelling site who got this kit for a present, and it was suggested he start with a different model first. The only place I have found anyone mentioning actually doing this model is on this site, where Anthony (booted) said he was returning to work on this model after 5 years. He showed pictures which looked really good and are helpful. Well, I know this all makes my success at this difficult, but I am going to try. At worst, the ship won't look as I would like, but I will have spent time with my son, but I am hoping for even better than that, so I decided to join this group in hopes that you might be willing to help guide me as I go through this process. Thanks in advance for any help.

I started following the instructions and have glued the frames to the keel. The instructions say to then plank the hull, but it doesn't say how. In my search to learn how to do this I have learned about fairing the frames and about a bearding line and needing to cut a rabbet line. None of this was mentioned in the instructions.
So my questions are:
1. Are all kits meant to cut a rabbet line? Does the double dotted line on the building plan (see attachment) at the front of the ship that extends as a single dotted line along the bottom of the ship to the back mean I am supposed to cut a rabbet line or does it mean something else? I assume this line is showing where the planks are to end and if so, how are the planks to end past frame 1 over block 9 to frame 8 as there is no dotted line?
2. Is it even possible for me to cut a rabbet line now that the frames are already glued?
3. On frames number 1 and 2 (2nd attachment) does the dotted line at the bottom of each mean that part is ultimately supposed to be sanded away to get to the solid line?

I am sorry for these very naive questions but again appreciate your help.

Hallo @JanetH
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

I started following the instructions and have glued the frames to the keel. The instructions say to then plank the hull, but it doesn't say how. In my search to learn how to do this I have learned about fairing the frames and about a bearding line and needing to cut a rabbet line. None of this was mentioned in the instructions.
So my questions are:

1. Are all kits meant to cut a rabbet line?
no some rabbits are built in the design

Does the double dotted line on the building plan (see attachment) at the front of the ship that extends as a single dotted line along the bottom of the ship to the back mean I am supposed to cut a rabbet line or does it mean something else?

the top line (blue arrow) is where the bulkheads should end the (red arrow) is the bottom of the rabbit and it should extend all the way back to the stern

the (green arrows) many builders will fill this space with wood blocks and shape the hull

the bulkheads are spaced so far apart you will have a hard time planking because there is no support between the bulkheads





I assume this line is showing where the planks are to end and if so, how are the planks to end past frame 1 over block 9 to frame 8 as there is no dotted line?

the planks continue over the stern filler blocks and end on frame 8 look close 22B is the lower transom and i can not comment until i see what the finished stern looks like.

2. Is it even possible for me to cut a rabbet line now that the frames are already glued?

actually you can just forget about the rabbit and just butt the planks to the keel profile.


3. On frames number 1 and 2 (2nd attachment) does the dotted line at the bottom of each mean that part is ultimately supposed to be sanded away to get to the solid line?

yup that sands away

 

[OldSalt1950]

Welcome Janet. I'll try to help as much as I can. You can still cut a rabbet line even with the frames attached to the keel. The line should run from the tip of the bow frame (Frame 1 at the front, all the way to the end of the keel just under the bottom of the frames) This can be scratched inti the keel or cut into the keel. Don't cut too deeply, as you don't want to cut through the keel. You will need a rabbet on both sides. The dotted lines are showing where other parts attach or pass through a piece of the ship.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

here are some examples of using filler blocks

Model VICTORY by Deagostini, scale 1/84

Here is the result of my work for tonight. The process is moving. For some reason, DeAgostini has a transom stern on VICTORI. ROTFWe'll have to redo it.:rolleyes: Quite remarkable, this is a real education Thumbsup - Mark

shipsofscale.com

HMS Ontario 1780 scale 1:32 POB full version

Hi Zoly, The reinforcing timbers are they just for support until you get some planking going?

shipsofscale.com

 

[JanetH]

I started following the instructions and have glued the frames to the keel. The instructions say to then plank the hull, but it doesn't say how. In my search to learn how to do this I have learned about fairing the frames and about a bearding line and needing to cut a rabbet line. None of this was mentioned in the instructions.
So my questions are:

1. Are all kits meant to cut a rabbet line?
no some rabbits are built in the design

Does the double dotted line on the building plan (see attachment) at the front of the ship that extends as a single dotted line along the bottom of the ship to the back mean I am supposed to cut a rabbet line or does it mean something else?

the top line (blue arrow) is where the bulkheads should end the (red arrow) is the bottom of the rabbit and it should extend all the way back to the stern

the (green arrows) many builders will fill this space with wood blocks and shape the hull

the bulkheads are spaced so far apart you will have a hard time planking because there is no support between the bulkheads

View attachment 294935



I assume this line is showing where the planks are to end and if so, how are the planks to end past frame 1 over block 9 to frame 8 as there is no dotted line?

the planks continue over the stern filler blocks and end on frame 8 look close 22B is the lower transom and i can not comment until i see what the finished stern looks like.

2. Is it even possible for me to cut a rabbet line now that the frames are already glued?

actually you can just forget about the rabbit and just butt the planks to the keel profile.


3. On frames number 1 and 2 (2nd attachment) does the dotted line at the bottom of each mean that part is ultimately supposed to be sanded away to get to the solid line?

yup that sands away

View attachment 294950

Thank you so much for this input. It was very helpful.

 

[JanetH]

Welcome Janet. I'll try to help as much as I can. You can still cut a rabbet line even with the frames attached to the keel. The line should run from the tip of the bow frame (Frame 1 at the front, all the way to the end of the keel just under the bottom of the frames) This can be scratched inti the keel or cut into the keel. Don't cut too deeply, as you don't want to cut through the keel. You will need a rabbet on both sides. The dotted lines are showing where other parts attach or pass through a piece of the ship.

Thank you for your help. I appreciate it.

 

[JanetH]

here are some examples of using filler blocks

Model VICTORY by Deagostini, scale 1/84

Here is the result of my work for tonight. The process is moving. For some reason, DeAgostini has a transom stern on VICTORI. ROTFWe'll have to redo it.:rolleyes: Quite remarkable, this is a real education Thumbsup - Mark

shipsofscale.com

HMS Ontario 1780 scale 1:32 POB full version

Hi Zoly, The reinforcing timbers are they just for support until you get some planking going?

shipsofscale.com

Using filler blocks looks like a good idea. I think I will try that.

 

[JanetH]

I found someone online who actually did the Black Falcon as his first model, and he told me there were more instructions than what my kit came with. I contacted Mantua in Italy and found I can get instructions for the Black Falcon. However, my model is so old that they don't guarantee that the instructions will be perfect for my model. I ordered the instructions anyway and am looking forward to getting them. I am sure I will be back with more questions. I appreciate everyone's help.

 

[Uwek]

My husband bought the Mantua Black Falcon ship model 768 relatively cheaply off of ebay a couple of years ago so he could do the project with our 12 year old son. He started but soon realized, being new to ship modelling, that this was going to be more difficult than he expected, so he bought a simpler project not related to ship building which he and our son enjoyed putting together. I decided I would look into doing the Black Falcon with our son since we already have the kit. Well, being new to this myself I didn't know what to expect. What I found appears to be a very old version of the kit, possibly 1979 as there is a 1979 kit catalog in the box . It has two large papers showing the building plans. One of these has what seems to me very minimal instructions in multiple languages one of which, luckily, is English. There is a small 4 page booklet not in English which when I try to translate it on google translate says it is Dutch. This also gives some instructions but at least in the small part that I have translated seems to be in a slightly different order than the other instructions. It also contains a list of the items in the box with dimensions which have been very helpful to figure out what the various pieces are. I have looked for any threads for doing this model and came across another newbie on a different ship modelling site who got this kit for a present, and it was suggested he start with a different model first. The only place I have found anyone mentioning actually doing this model is on this site, where Anthony (booted) said he was returning to work on this model after 5 years. He showed pictures which looked really good and are helpful. Well, I know this all makes my success at this difficult, but I am going to try. At worst, the ship won't look as I would like, but I will have spent time with my son, but I am hoping for even better than that, so I decided to join this group in hopes that you might be willing to help guide me as I go through this process. Thanks in advance for any help.

I started following the instructions and have glued the frames to the keel. The instructions say to then plank the hull, but it doesn't say how. In my search to learn how to do this I have learned about fairing the frames and about a bearding line and needing to cut a rabbet line. None of this was mentioned in the instructions.
So my questions are:
1. Are all kits meant to cut a rabbet line? Does the double dotted line on the building plan (see attachment) at the front of the ship that extends as a single dotted line along the bottom of the ship to the back mean I am supposed to cut a rabbet line or does it mean something else? I assume this line is showing where the planks are to end and if so, how are the planks to end past frame 1 over block 9 to frame 8 as there is no dotted line?
2. Is it even possible for me to cut a rabbet line now that the frames are already glued?
3. On frames number 1 and 2 (2nd attachment) does the dotted line at the bottom of each mean that part is ultimately supposed to be sanded away to get to the solid line?

I am sorry for these very naive questions but again appreciate your help.

Hallo @JanetH
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY

 

[Corsair]

Happy birthday Janet ! I hope your build of the Black Falcon that you are doing with your son is going well!