HMS Victory stern / quarter galleries

V

Vince Williams

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Hi

I'm planning a scratch build of HMS Victory as it was originally built - I'm looking at the stern galleries and I know they were closed in at a later date and in a number of books I'm seeing painting and models in the maritime museums supposedly showing how it was with the open stern..... I'm no expert but I think the historic models are wrong....

Why I'm questioning this is that the arrangement makes no sense - why put windows in at the sides which offer benefit given the structural frames run inside with just doors from the outer areas of the quarter galleries and it firstly blocks any light benefit and also creates an akward space between.......

Also when I look at the only surviving draught as built elevation, the sides and rear were enclosed at the middle deck level and open balconies at the upper and quarter deck level...but the bit that most people historically seem to have missed is that the windows at the stern are as current, but the balcony was beyond where the stern currently ends so it was a cantilevered overhanging balcony at the rear (ie the stern balcony must have been removed and the glazed doors out to this balcony changed to sash windows (as can also be seen on a painting from 1778....). My guess is that these overhanging balconies were removed to reduce weight given its early issues with depth from water line to first row of portholes...

So my question is - am I right and instead of the 8 no ships frames running upto the quarter deck as current off the lower and upper counter timber, the natural light would have been sacrificed at the middle deck level to allow the frames to run all the way through (ie pretty much as it is now) but there would only be 5 frames of the counter timbers so at the upper and quarter deck levels the 3 windows would sit inbetween these frames set back from their current position and thus have the open galleries at the upper and quarter deck as wrap around galleries (hope that made sense?)

I've been trying to get my head around this for a while and comparing Victory to other ship of the line from similar period so if anyone more knowledgable than I can advise I'd be most grateful..
 
Hallo Vince,
this is a very interesting project, the original 1765 HMS Victory in scratch - for me she was before much more interesting than after the big repair.
and also interesting your thoughts about the stern structure.
I am not a specialist of the Victory like f.e. @dafi who studied this vessel over years.... I am only a fan of the ships of the line of this time period

For everybody not knowing how the "old" Vic was looking originally Here you can find contemporary drawing and models

j1842.jpg

f5808_003.jpg l2449_003.jpg

But most beautiful was the original figurehead
l2400_005.jpg
 
Vince Williams said:
Hi

I'm planning a scratch build of HMS Victory as it was originally built - I'm looking at the stern galleries and I know they were closed in at a later date and in a number of books I'm seeing painting and models in the maritime museums supposedly showing how it was with the open stern..... I'm no expert but I think the historic models are wrong....

Why I'm questioning this is that the arrangement makes no sense - why put windows in at the sides which offer benefit given the structural frames run inside with just doors from the outer areas of the quarter galleries and it firstly blocks any light benefit and also creates an akward space between.......

Also when I look at the only surviving draught as built elevation, the sides and rear were enclosed at the middle deck level and open balconies at the upper and quarter deck level...but the bit that most people historically seem to have missed is that the windows at the stern are as current, but the balcony was beyond where the stern currently ends so it was a cantilevered overhanging balcony at the rear (ie the stern balcony must have been removed and the glazed doors out to this balcony changed to sash windows (as can also be seen on a painting from 1778....). My guess is that these overhanging balconies were removed to reduce weight given its early issues with depth from water line to first row of portholes...

So my question is - am I right and instead of the 8 no ships frames running upto the quarter deck as current off the lower and upper counter timber, the natural light would have been sacrificed at the middle deck level to allow the frames to run all the way through (ie pretty much as it is now) but there would only be 5 frames of the counter timbers so at the upper and quarter deck levels the 3 windows would sit inbetween these frames set back from their current position and thus have the open galleries at the upper and quarter deck as wrap around galleries (hope that made sense?)

I've been trying to get my head around this for a while and comparing Victory to other ship of the line from similar period so if anyone more knowledgable than I can advise I'd be most grateful..
Click to expand...
Hallo @Vince Williams
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY
Birthday-Cake
 
Does anybody know where these pictures (above) of an early HMS Victory model can be found? The one I posted has been in my files so long I cannot remeber where I found it. :confused:
 
Alan Smith said:
Does anybody know where these pictures (above) of an early HMS Victory model can be found? The one I posted has been in my files so long I cannot remeber where I found it. :confused:
Click to expand...

It is a model in the NMM

Victory.jpg

Victory (1765); Warship; First rate; 100 guns​

Scale: 1:60. A model of H.M.S Victory (1765) made entirely in wood that has been painted in realistic colours with metal fittings. The vessel is shown in a launching cradle on a slipway. The hull is painted white below the waterline with a closed black wale above. The remainder of the hull is varnished, and laid in individual planks. There are three gun decks and all the gunports are depicted in an open position, the inner faces of the gunport lids are painted red as are the insides of the gunports themselves. A decorative frieze is painted on a blue ground that runs the entire length of the hull just above main deck level. The figurehead is finely carved depicting George III, allegorical figures and a Union flag on the starboard side. Other bow details include a pair of whisker booms, a pair of catheads, one large admiralty pattern anchor, and one small anchor. The model does not have any masts but instead has three launching flag poles. Foredeck fittings include a bell and belfry, stove chimney, and a forward launching flag pole. The waist has been closed in and four beams support a ship’s boat equipped with a number of red-painted oars. Beneath the boat on the main deck are two sets of gratings. The upper deck fittings include the ship's double wheel painted red, and two companion ways that provide access to the poop deck. The poop deck fittings include a rectangular skylight, launching flag pole, hammock stowage rails, and provision for an ensign jack staff. The stern and quarter galleries, of which two are open, are elaborately carved and painted, and glazed in mica. The launching cradle and slipway is realistically depicted and there are six stabiliser poles attached to the port and starboard stern quarters and the sides of the slipway.

Victory (1765); Warship; First rate; 100 guns | Royal Museums Greenwich

www.rmg.co.uk www.rmg.co.uk
 
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