Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre

[catopower]

Hello Anguirel,

Both of those patterns look great. Whether you have one or two treenails per plank at every deck beam depends on the width of the plank. If the plank is more 6" wide in real life, it would have 2 treenails as a rule. If the planks are wider than 11" though, instead of the pair of treenails being staggered like that, they would be side-by-side. However, for your model, I would think that second pattern you've show is probably more accurate.

Now, as for it appearing too busy, that's a call that you have to make. Real treenails are barely visible on a deck, so some people avoid them completely. Others use strongly contrasting wood, so they really stand out. Still others put in all the treenails and try to keep the look subdued, so they shouldn't look so busy. Another method is to just put in the treenails at the butt of the planking and just don't worry about all the others.

Generally speaking 1:90-scale is a pretty small for treenails anyway, but it's up to you what you decide you like to do and what you think looks good.

Clare

 

[GaryM]

The way things are treenailed is based on the width of the plank. I do not know where you live but I imagine that you can get the book by Donald Dressel called "Planking Techniques for Model Ship Builders". The size of treenails at your scaled would be the size of a 78 drill bit. Good luck.

 

[NMBROOK]

Hi Auguirel
I have been watching the debate unfold with great interest.I am in the process of collecting the Deag Trinidad myself,but do not anticipate starting well in to the New Year when I have collected a good few issues.You can simulate treenails using woodfiller if you so wish.I would recommend you sand the deck thoroughly and give it a coat of polyurethane varnish before commencing.Then drill all the holes,I would use a 0.3mm drill bit at this scale.Then wipe the coloured wood filler into the deck like you were grouting tiles.When set give it a light sand,it doesn't matter if you remove the varnish,this is only to stop the filler staining the wood.You will be left with the appearance of treenails.If you look at my Sovereign build in the scratch section you will see what it looks like.This was done with a 0.4mm drill.The colour of filler you use is of course down to you.
Kind Regards Nigel

 

[Anguirel]

Hi GaryM, I'm currently in Houston, Texas I already ordered the book you talked about an a few other, they should arrive in a couple of days. thanks for that.

Nigel, that a good idea, using woodfiller. At the moment I'm using a 0.3mm drill and wood rod painted black to simulate the treenails. the effect you get is a black ring around the treenail (simulates the caulking). I'm in the office right now later on I will post some images.

 

[Anguirel]

The long overdue pictures

the image is a bit out of focus but you can see the effect in some places. I still have to put the treenails in the other half and do a bit of sanding.

 

[Anguirel]

The books have arrived, looking in to the deck planking I came across the nibbing strake. I had seen this before but only on more resents boats. Does anyone know if this was applied on 18th century ships of the line?

 

[Anguirel]

Hi,

My last post was almost a month ago. I had some health problems, had to travel for work and help the Admiral with the two Vice Admiral so the time for the rest is very limited.
Finally I managed to plank half of the main deck...

I´m really pleased with the results, now to do the other half and than tree-nails...

 

[StevieF]

Nice looking deck! I cant confirm or deny the thought about the nibbling plank? I can only say that what you have done looks just right. No doubt someone will have a definitive answer for you somewhere along the line.
Keep it up, great stuff.
Cheers, Steve.. :greetings-clapyellow:

 

[Anguirel]

Hi

In the last month I was able to find a little time here and there for the Santísima Trinidad. Here are some photos of the progress. I finally settled on what to do on the third gun deck. My first plan was to put true cannons in all the decks but same of the frames are in front of the gun ports so that was that. In the end, because I don´t like the false cannons that came with the kit I closing all the gun ports. It is a bit extreme but I feel better that way... Although the gun port will be close I'm still putting cannons on the third gun deck. So the photos are about the progress on that deck.

False deck of the second gun deck after gluing and drilling the tree-nails...

Back of the false deck of the second gun deck

False deck of the second gun deck after sanding and applying protection

Second and third deck in place

Cover for the "air ways" of the third deck and capstan

General view with the main gun deck (dry fitted)

Detail of the main gun deck

Detail of the main gun deck

Detail of the main gun deck

so far so good...

 

[Anguirel]

I have done a lot of reading this last months and I re-did those deck three times. I didn't find any information on where exactly the position of the butt where, looking at other model all seemed to be planked in a symmetrical fashion like you said but (me being no expert) I think that it makes more sense that the butts location is defined by the position of the frames of the deck framing that supports the deck and this is defined by the layout of the deck itself (airways, stairs, masts, etc.). Like I said I'm no ship builder so I can be completely wrong...
For the butt shift I followed the pattern that is on the ST plans of the Naval Museum in Madrid. On the King plank do you know what the width should be? I didn't find any reference to that.
I'm very pleased with how the deck turned out but I still trying to understand how to do the water ways...

 

[Anguirel]

The frame of the deck was made of three "levels" of beams that had different length and thickness. The position of thicker beams as such as to reinforced the weak zones of the decks (holds and stairways). we can see this frame on the HMS Victory

The butts ended on this main beams and not on the others. So if the planks were all the same size I think that you would need to be very lucky for them to end always at one of the main beams.
But you are right I only found one ship model that didn't had a fix size plank for the decks:

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=151558

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php...y-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/page-5#entry4022

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php...y-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/page-5#entry4023

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php...y-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/page-5#entry4272

You have far more experience than I do at modeling and the knowledge I have on ship building is all theoretical and based on books and the internet so I might be defending the most idiot idea...

 

[Anguirel]

Well, for the butt shifting I used the plans from the Naval Museum of Madrid:

And they are not symmetrical...

I keep on forgetting the finish I'm using for the decks is Danish Oil.

 

[Anguirel]

Here is the latest advance... the board inlay took a long time to do, this is the forth try. It has real fun to do. The columns took less time. This are all new technics to me so it has real fun to do... With what I learned the board inlay could be better is I try one more time but I like the final result and it feels to much works to do it again...
here are some images:

The inlay

The columns

Everything together

Now for the cannons...

 

[Donnie]

Anguirel,
your attention to detail is really paying off. Keep up the great work. Sorry that I have been absent for so long.

Donnie

 

[Anguirel]

Hi,

It has been too long since the last time I came here. Between the family and the work the time for the ST if far less that the worst estimate I had and I'm changing far more thing on the kit than I was expecting.
Now for thee good part:
Thanks for the support Donnie, sometimes I think I should simplify but it just doesn't feel right... with that in mind...
When I decided to still put the cannons on the 3th deck (even thought the gun ports will be closed) I came across one question. in all the models I've seen the cannons are always puled out, ready for action. But since my ST gun ports will be closed how did they secured the cannons when they here not in used? Apparently (at lest on the internet) that's not a easy question to answer. After a lot of searching I decided to do a test before I committed to the "real thing" on actual kit, where are some images of what I could do:

Please tell me what you think...

:greetings-waveyellow:

 

[Tadeusz]

Hi,
It looks good. Certain items are maybe a bit too big but at this scale it is very difficult to maintain the right proportions. :greetings-clapyellow:

Tadeusz
My models:
From kits
Vasa, HMS Victory, Le Solei Royale, Friesland
From scratch
HMS Warrior 1860, Esplanade, Grosse Yacht
Norman’s ship, HMS Speedy, La Royale
Peter von Danzig
Polacca XVII cent.
Current project:
SS Savannah 1818

 

[Donnie]

Well, I think that is really tedious, awesome, which covers a large range of all sorts of thoughts. I can only say for myself, that early in my build, I wanted to do so many things. But it really depends. Once you commit to one, you have to commit to the rest of them. I am speaking of things that require repeated work.
All I can say is that the work you have done on this example is really incredible, but repeating this would be a challenge. I guess it all depends on how much any person is willing to invest their time in.
Each time a person looks at any completed ship, each person is going to admire one aspect about it and totally overlook the other. Just like I was showing some images to a co worker of the ship with all of its rigging (of what I have done so far). The first thing he said was - wow look at those canons. Well, to me there is a lot more of the ship than just my canons and yes, I am not happy with my cannons and I could never figure out what to do about it. At that time, I did not have a machine lathe and the tools to make my own carriages and turn my own cannons or I would have. That is what building is all about. Everyone is different in the way they approach their model and also alot depends on what tools and resources you have at your disposal.
I am sure that what ever you decide on it will be a show stopper !!

Donnie

 

[Anguirel]

well I only have to do 9 more...

 

[Donnie]

Aren't you working with the De Agostini plans?

 

[Anguirel]

No, just OcCre, and the plans from the Naval Museum in Madrid...