Rigging

dj56

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#2
hello Pat71, when all work on my victory was done I first done the standing rigging and then as last the lying rigging
greetings
dj56 (Willy)
 

Uwek

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#3
But before you install masts and yards, you should install all fixed blocks etc. at the masts and yards before you fix them to the ship
 

Pat71

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#4
Op am thinkin with this boat in do the rigging of 1 mast when it is finnished and then the next mast and the rigging of that one. With the Victory i saved all the rigging till the last but i dont like rigging verry much and had to do all the rigging at once.
 

paulv1958

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#5
When I do rigging I do standing first, mast by mast working from front to back with lower shrouds & rats, ( only 3rd of mast installed) then back to from for mid shrouds & rats) 2/3 mast installed, then front to back again with top shrouds & rats( 3/3 installed). I then do front stays for bowsprit, fore, main & miz. Then back stays from miz to fore as then all pull on each other. Then crows feet if needed, Then I add Yards to masts and tie off parrals etc. Finally I then add the running rigging & sail s if provided. This allows you to get to masts & rigging in a controlled method and helps prevent hand/ tools rigging incidents. It also allows you to adjust tension as you go. If the shrouds & rats are nice and taught then the mast ten to not move and the stays can be tightened nicely.

After that add all the rope coils etc to bits to finish off.
 

Pat71

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#6
Tnx! Gonna give that aan try. No way tot avoid rigging. Love the work with wood but the ropes. ........
 

Fright

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#7
Pat - I hear you on the rigging. It can be overwhelming if it's your first try. I know that feeling well ;) Some good advice by Uwek and paulv1958. I was advised to get as much rigging done on masts before attaching to the ship. I was advised to work from the inside out with rigging which would make it easier to get to. I'm slowly coming along with my Bluenose and I'm learning as I go with the running lines. Take your time and reach out for advice and research articles, photos, builds etc. on your model. The best to you and look forward to seeing your work. Cheers!
 

Pat71

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#9
Tnx for Your time all. Ik cant reach some points on the Victory now. The verry thin lines close tot the mast. Shaky hands to
 

Donnie

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#10
I hope that you guys allow me to join this conversation. Pat, first of all, please take a look at my Trinidad Build Log (personal site):
https://www.shipsofscale.com/Trinidad/STBL15.html

Now, all of this is my humble opinion:
All warships will have basically the same rigging "Pattern". The easiest as has been mentioned is to work in an orderly fashion and I would go as far as saying that it is really a necessity to work in a order to avoid being trapped in a situation that you can not reach or get to a particular section. Below is in my opinion is a good order of things with the first item mentioned would be the FIRST thing to rig up:

STANDING RIGGING (Stationary)
  • All Stays. All Stays support the mast running in the CENTER of the ship from Fore to Aft. For instance, a "Stay" will run from the very top foremast down to the bowsprit tip. Then with that in mind, you will also have another stay on the foremast located about halfway down that will run down to the bowsprit. This "pattern" is repeated with the Main Mast. An example, the top of the Main Mast will have a line that will run from the TOP of the Main Mast to the BASE of the foremast. And again, take the Mizzen Mast. From the TOP of the Mizzen Mast, a line to the BASE of the Main mast. What I mention here is an example or typical. It is possible to have several STAYS but they all run center-line fore to aft. It is also possible to have some stays that attach to mast and will run to each side of ship to offer even more support. They are all STATIONARY.
  • All Shrouds. All Shrouds support the mast as of Port to Starboard (or side to side support). All Shrouds will attach to the Deadeyes which have their own rigging. The Shrouds also have Ratlines that run horizontal. ALL mast will have Shrouds.
  • Stays for the "Flying Jibs and Staysails". This portion of rigging could be allocated in either section, but I chose to include it here because according to some research I did, the Flying Jibs and Staysails need to have a STATIONARY line of which the sail is "supported by". For a Staysail that is mounted between teh foremast and mainmast, there would be for instance one line that would run from the BASE of the aft foremast up to the end of the staysail, then run the length of the staysail, using a pulley and then terminating at the "fore" BASE of the Main Mast. Where the line travels from mast to mast at the top is where the staysail will be "attached" with loops or rings. Then each staysail will have its own line to tie off (running part)
RUNNING RIGGING (lines that move or make adjustments to sails or yards)
  • Yard Lifts. All yards must be lifted up and down. Most all yard lifts are basically rigged the same. Each end of the yard has lines that travel up to the mast with a pulley of some sort and that line eventually makes it way (usually) to the BASE of its Mast.
  • Yard Braces. Yard braces have lines that attach to each end of the Yard. The Yard must be able to swing from side to side to allow the wind to capture which makes the ship go forth. Yard braces also will have pulleys that the line eventually end at a "BELAYING PIN RAIL" This applies to every yard must have braces.
  • Sail Management. ALL sails must be managed. Lifted up and down and managed the tightness, etc. You will have Sheets, Leech lines, Bunt lines, Clew lines, etc, ALL of which MUST be used and eventually terminate at the BELAYING PIN RAILS. It should be noted here that there is an order for tieing off the belaying pins. The LOWEST sail management will tie off at the LEADING pin whilst the TOP most sail management will tie off at the most TRAILING pin.
All of which is simply repeated over and over again for each Yard, each Mast, and each sail. It will become obvious that at some point, you will see that just doing one mast - yard - sail situation that all of them are rigged the SAME. Nothing is different basically. Everything is GROUPED. The PIN RAILS will be grouped for EVERYTHING that has to do with that one mast and yard set. You will have a first group of Pin Rails for the running rigging of the Foremast. Then you will have a second group of Pin Rails for the running rigging of the Main Mast, and lastly another group of Pin Rails for all the running rigging for the Mizzen mast. remember that most of the time, the yard lifts most likely will have a PIN RAIL or BITTS at the BASE of each Mast that handle the Yard up and down motion.
 

Pat71

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#11
Tnx for Your time! Now in need to learn all the names by hart. Gonna do this ship different then the first. Hope i learn from every ship here on this great and helpfull forum
 

Fright

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#12
I hope that you guys allow me to join this conversation. Pat, first of all, please take a look at my Trinidad Build Log (personal site):
https://www.shipsofscale.com/Trinidad/STBL15.html

Now, all of this is my humble opinion:
All warships will have basically the same rigging "Pattern". The easiest as has been mentioned is to work in an orderly fashion and I would go as far as saying that it is really a necessity to work in a order to avoid being trapped in a situation that you can not reach or get to a particular section. Below is in my opinion is a good order of things with the first item mentioned would be the FIRST thing to rig up:

STANDING RIGGING (Stationary)
  • All Stays. All Stays support the mast running in the CENTER of the ship from Fore to Aft. For instance, a "Stay" will run from the very top foremast down to the bowsprit tip. Then with that in mind, you will also have another stay on the foremast located about halfway down that will run down to the bowsprit. This "pattern" is repeated with the Main Mast. An example, the top of the Main Mast will have a line that will run from the TOP of the Main Mast to the BASE of the foremast. And again, take the Mizzen Mast. From the TOP of the Mizzen Mast, a line to the BASE of the Main mast. What I mention here is an example or typical. It is possible to have several STAYS but they all run center-line fore to aft. It is also possible to have some stays that attach to mast and will run to each side of ship to offer even more support. They are all STATIONARY.
  • All Shrouds. All Shrouds support the mast as of Port to Starboard (or side to side support). All Shrouds will attach to the Deadeyes which have their own rigging. The Shrouds also have Ratlines that run horizontal. ALL mast will have Shrouds.
  • Stays for the "Flying Jibs and Staysails". This portion of rigging could be allocated in either section, but I chose to include it here because according to some research I did, the Flying Jibs and Staysails need to have a STATIONARY line of which the sail is "supported by". For a Staysail that is mounted between teh foremast and mainmast, there would be for instance one line that would run from the BASE of the aft foremast up to the end of the staysail, then run the length of the staysail, using a pulley and then terminating at the "fore" BASE of the Main Mast. Where the line travels from mast to mast at the top is where the staysail will be "attached" with loops or rings. Then each staysail will have its own line to tie off (running part)
RUNNING RIGGING (lines that move or make adjustments to sails or yards)
  • Yard Lifts. All yards must be lifted up and down. Most all yard lifts are basically rigged the same. Each end of the yard has lines that travel up to the mast with a pulley of some sort and that line eventually makes it way (usually) to the BASE of its Mast.
  • Yard Braces. Yard braces have lines that attach to each end of the Yard. The Yard must be able to swing from side to side to allow the wind to capture which makes the ship go forth. Yard braces also will have pulleys that the line eventually end at a "BELAYING PIN RAIL" This applies to every yard must have braces.
  • Sail Management. ALL sails must be managed. Lifted up and down and managed the tightness, etc. You will have Sheets, Leech lines, Bunt lines, Clew lines, etc, ALL of which MUST be used and eventually terminate at the BELAYING PIN RAILS. It should be noted here that there is an order for tieing off the belaying pins. The LOWEST sail management will tie off at the LEADING pin whilst the TOP most sail management will tie off at the most TRAILING pin.
All of which is simply repeated over and over again for each Yard, each Mast, and each sail. It will become obvious that at some point, you will see that just doing one mast - yard - sail situation that all of them are rigged the SAME. Nothing is different basically. Everything is GROUPED. The PIN RAILS will be grouped for EVERYTHING that has to do with that one mast and yard set. You will have a first group of Pin Rails for the running rigging of the Foremast. Then you will have a second group of Pin Rails for the running rigging of the Main Mast, and lastly another group of Pin Rails for all the running rigging for the Mizzen mast. remember that most of the time, the yard lifts most likely will have a PIN RAIL or BITTS at the BASE of each Mast that handle the Yard up and down motion.
 

Pat71

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#14
I have this log under the speed key on my ipad. I always take a look before i go tot sleep for weeks now. Have New pictures posted today in my log. Hope to reach a bit of your building level 1 day. My eyes are always bit foggy after churcery onze both eyes and because of that always dizzy and shaking hands but i give the best i can. Learning a lot here. And great you took the time to post this. If you have other helpfull comments its always welcome!
 

Peglegreg

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#16
G'day Pat
Donnie ,Uwe and the rest has said it all, but there's two other things I do that I found very useful. Before starting on the rigging I put down rope coils along the decks at places where they should go.
The second and I believe this is the most important thing to remember.
Think like you are working on the actual ship!
Do what has to be done so the mask will not collapse in the areas of shrouds, stays etc..
So, before the mask are put together (I do make the whole mask first and dry fit each part), I work from the ground up. When the main mask is put in, I run the shrouds and then the stays. I then do the same thing to the fore and muzzin masks. I then do the rat lines for each masks. I hate doing rat lines and spreading the boredom out to 3 stages, makes it easier. But again the 'rats' must have been on the full size ship at this stage.
Then I place the next stage of each mask on and do the shrouds, and stays and the rats.
Then the final stage of each masks are placed etc.
The third stage is the yards etc.
Final stage are the running lines. With the amount of rope around, you would be glad that the coils are pre-layed.
Go slow and steady
Greg
 

Donnie

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#17
I would have to go back to my build log of the Trindiad and look at the dates. I would say about 2 years on and off as I did not work on it just everyday. Someone that has experience could probably do it all in about 8 month if they work on it every day. See, the sails have to be rigged as well along with the yards, etc.
 
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#18
I hope that you guys allow me to join this conversation. Pat, first of all, please take a look at my Trinidad Build Log (personal site):
https://www.shipsofscale.com/Trinidad/STBL15.html

Now, all of this is my humble opinion:
All warships will have basically the same rigging "Pattern". The easiest as has been mentioned is to work in an orderly fashion and I would go as far as saying that it is really a necessity to work in a order to avoid being trapped in a situation that you can not reach or get to a particular section. Below is in my opinion is a good order of things with the first item mentioned would be the FIRST thing to rig up:

STANDING RIGGING (Stationary)
  • All Stays. All Stays support the mast running in the CENTER of the ship from Fore to Aft. For instance, a "Stay" will run from the very top foremast down to the bowsprit tip. Then with that in mind, you will also have another stay on the foremast located about halfway down that will run down to the bowsprit. This "pattern" is repeated with the Main Mast. An example, the top of the Main Mast will have a line that will run from the TOP of the Main Mast to the BASE of the foremast. And again, take the Mizzen Mast. From the TOP of the Mizzen Mast, a line to the BASE of the Main mast. What I mention here is an example or typical. It is possible to have several STAYS but they all run center-line fore to aft. It is also possible to have some stays that attach to mast and will run to each side of ship to offer even more support. They are all STATIONARY.
  • All Shrouds. All Shrouds support the mast as of Port to Starboard (or side to side support). All Shrouds will attach to the Deadeyes which have their own rigging. The Shrouds also have Ratlines that run horizontal. ALL mast will have Shrouds.
  • Stays for the "Flying Jibs and Staysails". This portion of rigging could be allocated in either section, but I chose to include it here because according to some research I did, the Flying Jibs and Staysails need to have a STATIONARY line of which the sail is "supported by". For a Staysail that is mounted between teh foremast and mainmast, there would be for instance one line that would run from the BASE of the aft foremast up to the end of the staysail, then run the length of the staysail, using a pulley and then terminating at the "fore" BASE of the Main Mast. Where the line travels from mast to mast at the top is where the staysail will be "attached" with loops or rings. Then each staysail will have its own line to tie off (running part)
RUNNING RIGGING (lines that move or make adjustments to sails or yards)
  • Yard Lifts. All yards must be lifted up and down. Most all yard lifts are basically rigged the same. Each end of the yard has lines that travel up to the mast with a pulley of some sort and that line eventually makes it way (usually) to the BASE of its Mast.
  • Yard Braces. Yard braces have lines that attach to each end of the Yard. The Yard must be able to swing from side to side to allow the wind to capture which makes the ship go forth. Yard braces also will have pulleys that the line eventually end at a "BELAYING PIN RAIL" This applies to every yard must have braces.
  • Sail Management. ALL sails must be managed. Lifted up and down and managed the tightness, etc. You will have Sheets, Leech lines, Bunt lines, Clew lines, etc, ALL of which MUST be used and eventually terminate at the BELAYING PIN RAILS. It should be noted here that there is an order for tieing off the belaying pins. The LOWEST sail management will tie off at the LEADING pin whilst the TOP most sail management will tie off at the most TRAILING pin.
All of which is simply repeated over and over again for each Yard, each Mast, and each sail. It will become obvious that at some point, you will see that just doing one mast - yard - sail situation that all of them are rigged the SAME. Nothing is different basically. Everything is GROUPED. The PIN RAILS will be grouped for EVERYTHING that has to do with that one mast and yard set. You will have a first group of Pin Rails for the running rigging of the Foremast. Then you will have a second group of Pin Rails for the running rigging of the Main Mast, and lastly another group of Pin Rails for all the running rigging for the Mizzen mast. remember that most of the time, the yard lifts most likely will have a PIN RAIL or BITTS at the BASE of each Mast that handle the Yard up and down motion.
I hope that you guys allow me to join this conversation. Pat, first of all, please take a look at my Trinidad Build Log (personal site):
https://www.shipsofscale.com/Trinidad/STBL15.html

Now, all of this is my humble opinion:
All warships will have basically the same rigging "Pattern". The easiest as has been mentioned is to work in an orderly fashion and I would go as far as saying that it is really a necessity to work in a order to avoid being trapped in a situation that you can not reach or get to a particular section. Below is in my opinion is a good order of things with the first item mentioned would be the FIRST thing to rig up:

STANDING RIGGING (Stationary)
  • All Stays. All Stays support the mast running in the CENTER of the ship from Fore to Aft. For instance, a "Stay" will run from the very top foremast down to the bowsprit tip. Then with that in mind, you will also have another stay on the foremast located about halfway down that will run down to the bowsprit. This "pattern" is repeated with the Main Mast. An example, the top of the Main Mast will have a line that will run from the TOP of the Main Mast to the BASE of the foremast. And again, take the Mizzen Mast. From the TOP of the Mizzen Mast, a line to the BASE of the Main mast. What I mention here is an example or typical. It is possible to have several STAYS but they all run center-line fore to aft. It is also possible to have some stays that attach to mast and will run to each side of ship to offer even more support. They are all STATIONARY.
  • All Shrouds. All Shrouds support the mast as of Port to Starboard (or side to side support). All Shrouds will attach to the Deadeyes which have their own rigging. The Shrouds also have Ratlines that run horizontal. ALL mast will have Shrouds.
  • Stays for the "Flying Jibs and Staysails". This portion of rigging could be allocated in either section, but I chose to include it here because according to some research I did, the Flying Jibs and Staysails need to have a STATIONARY line of which the sail is "supported by". For a Staysail that is mounted between teh foremast and mainmast, there would be for instance one line that would run from the BASE of the aft foremast up to the end of the staysail, then run the length of the staysail, using a pulley and then terminating at the "fore" BASE of the Main Mast. Where the line travels from mast to mast at the top is where the staysail will be "attached" with loops or rings. Then each staysail will have its own line to tie off (running part)
RUNNING RIGGING (lines that move or make adjustments to sails or yards)
  • Yard Lifts. All yards must be lifted up and down. Most all yard lifts are basically rigged the same. Each end of the yard has lines that travel up to the mast with a pulley of some sort and that line eventually makes it way (usually) to the BASE of its Mast.
  • Yard Braces. Yard braces have lines that attach to each end of the Yard. The Yard must be able to swing from side to side to allow the wind to capture which makes the ship go forth. Yard braces also will have pulleys that the line eventually end at a "BELAYING PIN RAIL" This applies to every yard must have braces.
  • Sail Management. ALL sails must be managed. Lifted up and down and managed the tightness, etc. You will have Sheets, Leech lines, Bunt lines, Clew lines, etc, ALL of which MUST be used and eventually terminate at the BELAYING PIN RAILS. It should be noted here that there is an order for tieing off the belaying pins. The LOWEST sail management will tie off at the LEADING pin whilst the TOP most sail management will tie off at the most TRAILING pin.
All of which is simply repeated over and over again for each Yard, each Mast, and each sail. It will become obvious that at some point, you will see that just doing one mast - yard - sail situation that all of them are rigged the SAME. Nothing is different basically. Everything is GROUPED. The PIN RAILS will be grouped for EVERYTHING that has to do with that one mast and yard set. You will have a first group of Pin Rails for the running rigging of the Foremast. Then you will have a second group of Pin Rails for the running rigging of the Main Mast, and lastly another group of Pin Rails for all the running rigging for the Mizzen mast. remember that most of the time, the yard lifts most likely will have a PIN RAIL or BITTS at the BASE of each Mast that handle the Yard up and down motion.
Dear Donnie,
Being relatively new, I noticed your forum about the sequence of rigging lines. This is a very informative and a great help
to me. Thank you.
Regards, John.
 
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#20
Hey donnie love your reasoning as I'm up to doing the masts and yards + sails on the occre diana .
Just one question do you put the sails on the yards first before adding the mast to the ship
Cheers snowy
 
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