LA SALAMANDRE, bomb ketch - POF - (CAF-models, 1/48)

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#81
For sanding you may wish to consider acquiring some of the 2" disks below. While they are originally for a microlux 90 degree sander, they can be adapted to use on a dremel. They come in various stiffness's. I have several of these with varying grits of sandpaper on them. The flexibility of them allows for easy tapering of the frames with a nice smooth transition.
sanding disk.jpg
 

ADC

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#83
Hi Uwek, I am unable to attach pictures to PM so I will post here.. This is how I see frame 45 is connected to frame 44. Should be angled back 10 degrees as in instructions but need to check with plans to measure actual angle.
3469A29D-C2EB-4FDE-AB0F-87339914C079.jpeg
 
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Uwek

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#84
Many thanks ADC for your research and sketch of the frames 44 and 45, it is in principle confirming my own opinion after a todays check of the ancre and CAF drawings and instructions. Info for all others: ADC and myself are constructing the same ship and we are by accident more or less at the same status of the built, so sometimes we are sharing our experiences with the kit and the built. Once more many thanks for this.

In the todays post I want to show the first "special" frame, No. 44 which was also mentioned and shown by ADC. Maybe for a lot of you my log is partly going into much details, but I think, that it is sometimes good for others, who are building or want to build the kit, to see how I did it. Maybe some future mistakes or errors by other modelers can be avoided.......so I hope it is not so boring for everybody.

The frame 44 special in comparison to the others, due to the fact, that only one half of the frame is founded on the keel with the floor timber.

The side direction to the bow with the long floor timber
IMG_1687.JPG

and the reverse side of the frame
IMG_1688.JPG

In the next photo a view from the side, laying on the ancre drawing next to the correct location for the frame. On the drawing frame 44 is amrked with a pencil
IMG_1691.JPG

IMG_1693.JPG
 
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Uwek

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#85
Also to explain more in detail the post from ADC here the marked frames on the ancre drawing, on which the frame 44 and 45 (first aft cant frame) are marked with pencil

IMG_1694.JPG

This photo is showing the elements of frame 45 on the drawings
.......you can realize that there are 3 floor timber elements, which are necessary to construct the frame with the mention 10° degrees,
which were shown by ADC on his sketch and on my photo on the drawing visible under the wooden parts.
Yes! the 10° have to be checked once more.

IMG_1695.JPG

In short time I will show the working steps for the construction of this frame
 
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neptune

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#87
Very nice work guys, Uwe are you sure 44 is a cant frame, it looks square to the keel, 45 is canted backwards, I think these frames were know as fashion pieces, could be wrong,

best regards John.
 

Uwek

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#88
Very nice work guys, Uwe are you sure 44 is a cant frame, it looks square to the keel, 45 is canted backwards, I think these frames were know as fashion pieces, could be wrong,

best regards John.
Hallo John,
Many thanks for the correct remark. 44 is square to the keel, it was missdefined by myself (English not my mother language) and I corrected the text of the post.....thanks for the remark
 

Uwek

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#89
My question to the group to know the correct term:
What is the name of the frames square towards the keel, which are sitting partly or complete on top of the stepping line of the stern deadwood between normal keel and the inner stern post, so f.e. does have the frame 44 a special name?
 
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neptune

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#90
Hallo John,
Many thanks for the correct remark. 44 is square to the keel, it was missdefined by myself (English not my mother language) and I corrected the text of the post.....thanks for the remark

No worries Uwe, you speak English better than I do German,

best regards John.
 

Pathfinder65

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#91
Hi Uwe,

Being a novice model wooden boat builder I’m having a hard time visualizing the actual fit of frames 44 & 45. Do they butt up to the Keel and become the support for the Stern?? Dumb question???
 

Uwek

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#92
Hi Uwe,

Being a novice model wooden boat builder I’m having a hard time visualizing the actual fit of frames 44 & 45. Do they butt up to the Keel and become the support for the Stern?? Dumb question???
44 is based with half of the frame on top of the keel, with the other half on top of the stern deadwood. 45 as the only aft cant frame of the La Salamandre is completely based on top of the stern deadwood. Together with the horizontal installed wing transoms the cant frame 45 is connected in the higher part with the inner stern post. This is the basic structure of the stern.

I made a very fast sketch showing the locations of 44 and 45 (on the left hand side you see an excerpt from Anscherls book showing the stern of his Swan class sloop)
IMG_1714.JPG

And maybe for better understanding a photo of the ancre plan showing the elements of the stern
IMG_1716.JPG

I hope that I can show the construction of the complete stern in the next time........step by step and part by part......
But be aware, that a lot of ships are different in some parts or details. The La Salamandre was a relative small vessel, so also the stern is more simple than on other ships......(for me not so simple, but this I hope comes with the experience)
 

Uwek

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#94
Continuing post 85.......the built of aft cant frame 45

These are the instructions of the kit....... after longer study of these instruction drawings and off course the additional look at the ancre drawings I think I know how in principle the frame should look like and how it is built.

IMG_1696.JPG
on the right side in blue is the frame 45 shown, on the left side we can see (or not) how the floor timber has to be prepared

so first is the preparation of the floor, so that we are able to get the angle of 160 degrees, so that 45 is a cant frame with 160 ° degree
IMG_1703.JPG

so we have to glue the two elements together......done
IMG_1700.JPG
In the center of the photo you can see on the drawing in a top view the sketch of final floor timber canted.
After hardening of the glue it will be the next working step
 

Uwek

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#95
Now the sandwich has to be trimmed in such a way, that we get a 160 ° angle (on both sides 10 ° )

Here you can see the floor (which is the moment 2/3 rd of the thickness) on top of the drawings to make it more clear
IMG_1705.JPG
Maybe you realized, that on the drawing is mentioned 79° insteed of 80° ! Yes, this is my problem in the moment which one I have to follow.....the measure on the drawings is 79° (in CAF but also ancre), the description says 80°, usually I follow off course the drawing, but there is a small problem because the thickness of the wood is 0,6 mm too less (in the kit is used 4,7mm insteed of 5mm timber shown in the drawings - small but here important inaccuracy of the kit), so I can not easily reach 79 when I trimm the part........I and also you will see how to solve it

The floor timber with pencil marks for the sanding, in moment 80°
IMG_1706.JPG IMG_1707.JPG
 

Pathfinder65

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#97
Hi Uwe,

Thank you for the answer to my question. I think I can see what you are doing and how the parts will fit.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with your English. I had to learn it when I was ten. After all these years I still find some English expressions comical.
 

Peglegreg

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#98
Hi Uwe,

Thank you for the answer to my question. I think I can see what you are doing and how the parts will fit.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with your English. I had to learn it when I was ten. After all these years I still find some English expressions comical.
I know English is language of many difficult phrases to follow. My family came to Australia about 5 generations ago, and I can understand what you are saying.
One of best mates at school was an Italian and had to learn English after he moved here when he was 10. I knew him at about 15 or so.
One day he asked me about, a simple phrase that he heard and he couldn't make sense of. It was....'he cut down a tree and then he cut it up '. He wanted to know how did he cut the tree up in the air, after it was down.
I explained to him that cutting up was to say he cut the tree into smaller pieces. Another example is...
My wife is an Ozzie for over 32 years now, but she was born a Filipino. We often talked about our phrases that we have here etc.
What I'm saying, is that I think everyone who use English as their second language is doing an increadile feat, because I find it hard to speak Filipino after 33 years of listening and trying to speak it.
You all are amazing to me.
Havagooday and happymodeling
Greg
 

Uwek

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#99
during thinking about frame 45 I got another idea and made a small project in between

IMG_1722.JPG IMG_1720.JPG
His name is Mr. Scale and is a surveying master in the yard in scale 1:48.
So whenever it makes sense or also sometimes also if not, I will include this figurin in the photo,
but also for testing the scale correctness of new elements of the ship

These scale correct figurines are printed on the drawings from Jean Boudriot in the ancre publications
IMG_1721.JPG

So tomorrow I will think once more about frame 45.....
 

Uwek

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I am still not know which angle (80 0r 79) will be the correct one, so I decided today with this decision, when I have the stern construction installed on the keel, and when everything is installed in the jig (here I am waiting for spare from Max). I think, that only than I cane see insitu the real situation and can adjust the cant frame correctly.
Therefore I have to go forward with the keel and stern, to have the base for the frame.
The delivered laser cutted elements of the keel, keelson, stern post etc. are prepared out of 3 or 4mm thick cherry wood. In order to get the final thickness you have to glue 2 parts with the same shape together, like a sandwich. The inner stern post out of 3 elements in order to get on both sides the notches for the wing transom pieces. So today I clean slightly the parts and glued the sandwich together. BTW: The twin parts are realy fitting very good together.

IMG_1723.JPG

When the glue is dry, starting to sand and trim, that the elements are fitting together. In some days I will get some new black paper with only 65 gramms/m2 (Origami) for the caulking of the joints, than I can glue the elements together in order to prepare the stern structure........
 
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