Ingermanland 1715 (2014) * Shi Cheng * 1:50 Scale

I agree here with Maarten (as usual) that you have to finalize the complete deck furnishing before closing it for the next one.
Off course it is also up to the content of the kit and how the guns are prepared and in which detail they are available, means with carriage or as dummies.
There are kits available, where the guns of the lower decks are only dummies, means only a wooden board inside the deck, so no carriage, and against this a cannon dummie is installed from outside through the gunport.
But it seems, when I check the advertisment for the kit, there are complete carriages with the kit.
HTB1cVhCOVXXXXbKaFXXq6xXFXXXD.jpg
But I think, that this photo is showing not a correct construction status, but only the content of the kit.
I do not think, that you can install all the guns with carriage of the main gun deck after you closed the decks and also the hull.
You have to check theoretical, which elements of tackles etc. of the gundeck will be visible later on through your gunports, gratings etc.......
Also you have to take into account at which stage you have to or want to make the hull planking, because also with this you are limited with accessibility.
I think a hull planking with already installed guns will be not possible.....so maybe a way to install the carriages before and later on the gun barrels afterwards through the gunports.
But definitely the deck planking first
2014-version-von-Peter-die-Gro-flaggschiff-ingermanland-1715l-1-50-skala-segeln-holz-warship.jpg HTB1VJhFOVXXXXXGaFXXq6xXFXXXz.jpg
BTW they used a three shift pattern for the deck planking, so when I see the planks of the kit on your photo, it will be a nice work. I would start first with planking with the kingsplank in the centerline of the deck and from this work to starboard and larboard.

Like Maarten mentioned the simulation of caulking is done very often with a black marker. You should try first, if the the paint of the marker is not bleeding into the wood, often it is helping to sand a little bit the edge of the plank with a very fine sanding paper, with this bleeding / penetration of color ican be reduced.
You also can try to blacken only one side, means at the longitudinal joint between two planks only one plank is coloured, or maybe both, than the caulking is a little bit more domminant.
Another way to make the caulking is to use a very thin black paper with low weight (gram/m2). I do this very often. With this way a very fine, thin and accurate line of caulking can be simulated. One way is to take a package of planks and glue them with the edgestowards a black paper, after drying the glue you can diveide the planks with cutting through the black paper.......
I just found a nice description here which is describing with some photos the way: http://leggshipmodeling.blogspot.co.at/2009/11/caulked-deck-for-wooden-ship-model.html
Some others are macking only a fine soft pencil on the edge of the planks after they are installed. But here I think the use of varnish will be definiteloy necessary which will seep into the slight fine space........
Maybe the best is to make a small testfield, but this should be done until the end (including varnish if you want to use it) so you can find out, which fits for you best and fits also to the scale and appearance of the vessel....

BTW: These are the tools Maarten explained......I like these details very much, but it is a huge work to produce and fix, expecially if your vessel has a lot of guns.

tools.jpg

Sorry, for the long text, originally I didn´t want to write a novel....but I hope it is helping....also thanks to Maarten
 
Hi John,

You first have to finalize a deck before you put a new one on top. This means completely finish with all the parts like pumps gratings etc. Etc. This means also all the cannons for that specific deck incl all the rigging for the cannons if you want to do it right. You can even consider to put in the tools that belong to each cannon, normally these are stowed on the underside of the deck beams at each cannon. If you want to add lighting this is also the moment to do that.

In respect to the deck planks i normally use a marker to colour the sides black to simulate the caulking. On the spots were the deckbeams are you can add wooden dowels or simulate these.

Hope this helps.
Your information truly helps, Maarten. This tells me that I must, once again, stray from the instruction booklet, I believe.
The illustrated manual's next step is to plank the first deck, but, in the ships condition, I can't imagine doing so, along with installing the cannons, etc., without installing, at least, the outer bulwark sections and planking the hull first. It just seems to me that the cannons, along with there tools, would get tired of being rolled around and turned upside down for all of the planking.

That being said, I'm thinking (and please correct me if I'm wrong)...

1. Install the outer false bulwarks.
2. Complete the first planking of the hull.
3. Plank the outer bulwarks and complete the second hull planking.
4. Plank and build up the decks (to include inner bulwarks, cannons, etc.).
 
I agree here with Maarten (as usual) that you have to finalize the complete deck furnishing before closing it for the next one.
Off course it is also up to the content of the kit and how the guns are prepared and in which detail they are available, means with carriage or as dummies.
There are kits available, where the guns of the lower decks are only dummies, means only a wooden board inside the deck, so no carriage, and against this a cannon dummie is installed from outside through the gunport.
But it seems, when I check the advertisment for the kit, there are complete carriages with the kit.
View attachment 39690
But I think, that this photo is showing not a correct construction status, but only the content of the kit.
I do not think, that you can install all the guns with carriage of the main gun deck after you closed the decks and also the hull.
You have to check theoretical, which elements of tackles etc. of the gundeck will be visible later on through your gunports, gratings etc.......
Also you have to take into account at which stage you have to or want to make the hull planking, because also with this you are limited with accessibility.
I think a hull planking with already installed guns will be not possible.....so maybe a way to install the carriages before and later on the gun barrels afterwards through the gunports.
But definitely the deck planking first
View attachment 39691 View attachment 39692
BTW they used a three shift pattern for the deck planking, so when I see the planks of the kit on your photo, it will be a nice work. I would start first with planking with the kingsplank in the centerline of the deck and from this work to starboard and larboard.

Like Maarten mentioned the simulation of caulking is done very often with a black marker. You should try first, if the the paint of the marker is not bleeding into the wood, often it is helping to sand a little bit the edge of the plank with a very fine sanding paper, with this bleeding / penetration of color ican be reduced.
You also can try to blacken only one side, means at the longitudinal joint between two planks only one plank is coloured, or maybe both, than the caulking is a little bit more domminant.
Another way to make the caulking is to use a very thin black paper with low weight (gram/m2). I do this very often. With this way a very fine, thin and accurate line of caulking can be simulated. One way is to take a package of planks and glue them with the edgestowards a black paper, after drying the glue you can diveide the planks with cutting through the black paper.......
I just found a nice description here which is describing with some photos the way: http://leggshipmodeling.blogspot.co.at/2009/11/caulked-deck-for-wooden-ship-model.html
Some others are macking only a fine soft pencil on the edge of the planks after they are installed. But here I think the use of varnish will be definiteloy necessary which will seep into the slight fine space........
Maybe the best is to make a small testfield, but this should be done until the end (including varnish if you want to use it) so you can find out, which fits for you best and fits also to the scale and appearance of the vessel....

BTW: These are the tools Maarten explained......I like these details very much, but it is a huge work to produce and fix, expecially if your vessel has a lot of guns.

View attachment 39693

Sorry, for the long text, originally I didn´t want to write a novel....but I hope it is helping....also thanks to Maarten

Zoltan had asked that I purchase a few books so I did, and they also mentioned the black marker and paper. I think I'll try the marker and see how that turns out. The planks are teak so I don't know if that will make a difference as to how the planks accept the marker, but I'll let you know ;) In one of the books that I purchased, it talks about using a pencil, but warns that the lead can bleed out when the varnish is applied. Have you ever read this, or experienced it first hand?
Yes, the carriages are complete throughout the ship. The earlier version had the dummies for the main deck. And now I've seen aftermarket barrels with the Russian Crest cast into them, as apposed to me soldering them on to each as this kit suggests. So, I may end up purchasing them at some point. lol
The tools are a nice touch. I would like to think that I would pass them up during the build, but my perfectionist side tells me that I will be making them as well o_O That's not always my favorite side. lol
And your information is always welcome! Never think that it's too much, as I need all I can get. I just hope that none of you ever think that I'm asking too many questions. lol
 
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Hi John,

Your plan looks fine, first plank the hull from the outside with first and second planking. Ensure that the structure of the hull is rigid enough to carry the load of the planking as the decks are missing. If neede you can fit temporary deckbeams.
If you really enjoy the hobby and look for some more challenges you can even decide to skip the closed multiplex deck and create deckbeams with real planks in half open admirality style. The structure of the model is perfect for doing this. You can then look into the model at the gun decks. Thats the fun of modeling you can do whatever you want and create it with the kit as proper base.

Have fun.
 
Hi John,

If you really enjoy the hobby and look for some more challenges you can even decide to skip the closed multiplex deck and create deckbeams with real planks in half open admirality style.

Have fun.

I like that idea, but I'm not too sure it's for me. Although, once I start building up the main deck, I may decide that I'd like to see inside. We will see. Currently, I like the idea of lighting the decks. Without question, I plan on putting it in a case so I'm not sure how well I could actually see into the cut-away at that point.

And I wanted to thank you for the link to the ship! That really helps me with the colors!

Red carriages! Very interesting :)

223.jpg
 
Hi John,

Found this blog on 4h model site.

http://www.4hmodel.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=37275&extra=page=1

Hope the link works.
This page really helps explain a lot for me, Maarten! Thank you for this! WOW!

While reading through the text, the question is asked about the installation of the cannons and the builder replies, "The main deck is installed and moved in, or the gun is fixed inside, and the hull is manufactured and then the barrel is installed."
With that being said, my question would be, how would you install the barrels to their carriages if the carriages were already situated into the main deck?

I'm still in belief that I can, and should, build up the hull (planking) and then install and plank each deck and then install the cannons before moving on to the next deck. Although, I will say that the planking of the decks would be much easier before the installation of the bulwarks.

But I still have one more week to think about this before I can continue with my build.
 
Hi John,

I fully agree with you. First the outside hull planking. Then fully finish each deck before putting on the next one. This is also the normal procedure.
The build log on 4h site was just for testing the new hull structure they created but it gives a great insight in the build.

Lots of succes.
 
Okay, I'm finally getting back into the sing of things, here in the shipyard. During my weeks at work, Maarten sent me a link to another build of the Ingermanland that had great photos from start to finish, and within those photos I noticed something about the first deck. The planking only stretched from the center line to the ribs edge, and not all the way out to the edge of the false deck. So, instead of installing the bulwark and planking the hull first, I'm going to plank the first deck...first, so I can extend the planks all the way out, and then I will install the bulwark and plank the hull; returning to the next two decks once the hull planking is complete.
 
Hallo John,
Off course we are all curious about to see the works on her,
so do not forget to make some photos and share them with us :cool:
 
From where did you but them precut?

I began the planking at the forward most bulkhead. I'm not sure that is correct, but I'm using this deck for practice for the upper two decks, as this deck will not be fully seen. It will be almost completely covered by the second deck, with the exception of the hatches, and gun ports. And if all goes as planed, I'll be placing this ship in a glass case that will make it that much less visible to the viewer. With that being said, that doesn't mean that I want to cut corners in any way, but being new to the wooden ship world, I like the fact that I have a more forgiving area to practice in. But I imagine that this deck will look fantastic when I'l done :D
 
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