Dave, did you and Ev get my PMs and order, let me know if you received it. THANKS Don
How manny boats from kits do you have to build to make one from scrats
Back in THOSE times (sixties and seventies) in Hungary we could not even think about a kit, only in our dreams! So nothing else but scratchbuilding to start with! No tools, no good materials or plans and we still built ships - only a very few of us of course. It was a struggle but looking back it was so good! Unfortunately today's generations are not interested in anything which would need even the slightest effort. Our hobby is dying out, quickly.
Janos
Janos
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2012
- Messages
- 1,114
- Points
- 383
That is very true!
Bob
Bob
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,128
- Points
- 728
Unfortunately today's generations are not interested in anything which would need even the slightest effort. Our hobby is dying out, quickly.
I am not sure I agree with that because todays generation is far more tech savvy and they are advancing model building beyond anything we could dream about 10 years ago. Taking everything into consideration model engineering, R/C modeling, R/C model combat, Steam engines, 3D printing, CAD CAM machining, laser cutting, 3D animation is changing the way we see it. Model building is not dying out it is evolving.
when it comes to carving a figurehead I would not sit down with a piece of wood and carving tools, my choice of tools are a computer, 3D modeling program and a printer. Now if you think that is the easy way out I suggest you sit down and try it. Both approaches are not easy and both require talent and training, both methods require tools just a different set of tools.
I am not sure I agree with that because todays generation is far more tech savvy and they are advancing model building beyond anything we could dream about 10 years ago. Taking everything into consideration model engineering, R/C modeling, R/C model combat, Steam engines, 3D printing, CAD CAM machining, laser cutting, 3D animation is changing the way we see it. Model building is not dying out it is evolving.
when it comes to carving a figurehead I would not sit down with a piece of wood and carving tools, my choice of tools are a computer, 3D modeling program and a printer. Now if you think that is the easy way out I suggest you sit down and try it. Both approaches are not easy and both require talent and training, both methods require tools just a different set of tools.
my 2 cents:
Time is changing, yes, and partly we are a group of old guys with white hair doing these models.
But when I see such development of these chinese kits for example, like my Salamandre which gives the possibility of stepping in modeling of a high quality POF model, which some modeler maybe would not have started only from scratch.
20 years ago, you had only some kit manufacturer, and maybe a modeling club somewhere, and a small number of scratch builders, and a very small number of real good scratch builders. Nowadays with interent, with new techniques @didit explained already, there much more possibilities to learn and to get better results than 20 years ago.
Also with our forum, our communications and also our friendship, we make a small step in a good direction, that younger people get in touch with this hobby and feel the fun in it.
BTW: I think historic ship modeling is a little bit like we say about golf:
Do you still have sex or do you play already golf?
Time is changing, yes, and partly we are a group of old guys with white hair doing these models.
But when I see such development of these chinese kits for example, like my Salamandre which gives the possibility of stepping in modeling of a high quality POF model, which some modeler maybe would not have started only from scratch.
20 years ago, you had only some kit manufacturer, and maybe a modeling club somewhere, and a small number of scratch builders, and a very small number of real good scratch builders. Nowadays with interent, with new techniques @didit explained already, there much more possibilities to learn and to get better results than 20 years ago.
Also with our forum, our communications and also our friendship, we make a small step in a good direction, that younger people get in touch with this hobby and feel the fun in it.
BTW: I think historic ship modeling is a little bit like we say about golf:
Do you still have sex or do you play already golf?
Janos, I definatly agree with Dave about the new devlopmentsjust at my age 80 getting impatient for things to happen and the problem as I see it is GETTING THE WORD OUT THERE THAT THIS IS HAPPENING, me being a computer illeterate does not stop me from wanting to see it happening, not the TECH DETAILS, which I will never master but the END RESULTS TO ME IS WHAT MATTERES TO BUILD, better models in a decent time frame,jJUST NEED TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT THERE and it will take off especially to the backbone of our hobby which is the NOVICE AND INTERMEDIATE MODELERS if they can get one build completed they will stay. MY THOUGHTS ANYWAY Don....PS huge market in other places China large FORUMS THERE JUST HARD to get around the site, also Russia, And some EASTERN EUROPEAN COMPANIES
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,128
- Points
- 728
it is isolation that would be the death of the hobby. when you block build logs from the public and do not allow ALL kinds of kits and builds you are putting a strangle hold on the hobby. The answer is to EXPAND the hobby we are not the only hobby out there using high tech to achieve results. Getting involved in every aspect of model building and model engineering all over the world will advance us beyond our wildest dreams.
Young engineers and new generation of tech savvy young people will pick up were we leave off. Let US blaze the trail for others to follow.
Young engineers and new generation of tech savvy young people will pick up were we leave off. Let US blaze the trail for others to follow.
Fully agree Dave, but how to expand world wide maybe getting on some of the foriegn forums would help spread the INFORMATION, I mean some of the RUSSIAN, CHINESE, EUROPEAN FORUMS. Don
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2018
- Messages
- 6
- Points
- 8
Excellent discussion and thoughts. I used to think this model ship modelling hobby was dying, but no longer. The tools and techniques are changing, some of us oldsters may or may not embrace these changes. After all, we can make decent model ships without them because we know how to use our existing tools and techniques.
My current project is HMS Vulture, a Swan class sixth rate of about 1760 or so, Admiralty style, 1/4" to the foot scale. I do not know how to use cad, do not have a laser cutter nor a 3D printer, but I do have a well appointed shop and the skills to use all of them. I just discovered that the patterns for the knight heads/bollards do not work on my model, so after the second failed attempt, I reversed the order of assembly (Mr. Dave Antsyrel did an excellent job of lofting and publishing in his 4 books-no criticism). I also cut a very wide piece of stock (flowering dogwood) so I could cut the heel angle, then custom fit the bollards to my stem. This worked.
My point is that even experienced modelers have to remake parts. And figure out how to solve problems. One must always decide what is 'good enough'; you are the artist, the builder.
Will the new tools and techniques lead to better models? Will these draw more people to this great hobby? The jury is still out.
When I get discouraged, I think about our ancesters who made such beautiful Admiralty models, without any power tools and without any electricity. If a person has the passion, they do not need any fancy power tools. But I like power tools. And electric lights. Keep building and above all, have fun~! Duff
My current project is HMS Vulture, a Swan class sixth rate of about 1760 or so, Admiralty style, 1/4" to the foot scale. I do not know how to use cad, do not have a laser cutter nor a 3D printer, but I do have a well appointed shop and the skills to use all of them. I just discovered that the patterns for the knight heads/bollards do not work on my model, so after the second failed attempt, I reversed the order of assembly (Mr. Dave Antsyrel did an excellent job of lofting and publishing in his 4 books-no criticism). I also cut a very wide piece of stock (flowering dogwood) so I could cut the heel angle, then custom fit the bollards to my stem. This worked.
My point is that even experienced modelers have to remake parts. And figure out how to solve problems. One must always decide what is 'good enough'; you are the artist, the builder.
Will the new tools and techniques lead to better models? Will these draw more people to this great hobby? The jury is still out.
When I get discouraged, I think about our ancesters who made such beautiful Admiralty models, without any power tools and without any electricity. If a person has the passion, they do not need any fancy power tools. But I like power tools. And electric lights. Keep building and above all, have fun~! Duff
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,128
- Points
- 728
yes don and this is why I suggested like you see on SOS home page where you pick the language apply that to forums and there you go an international group.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,128
- Points
- 728
right on Duff
the hand built admiralty models evolved into using power tools and now that is evolving in higher tech tools do we need all the tools not really but we need the knowledge.
have you read the topic on steam? it is not just in this hobby it is the very nature of man advancing from old to new from wind to steam to nuclear power
when I sit down with model building believe it or not I still build mostly by hand. I may of cut the frame parts with a laser or a scroll saw no difference because I sit there and "build" by hand, sand the frames by hand
in the end it is still the hand of man that builds and creates
the hand built admiralty models evolved into using power tools and now that is evolving in higher tech tools do we need all the tools not really but we need the knowledge.
have you read the topic on steam? it is not just in this hobby it is the very nature of man advancing from old to new from wind to steam to nuclear power
when I sit down with model building believe it or not I still build mostly by hand. I may of cut the frame parts with a laser or a scroll saw no difference because I sit there and "build" by hand, sand the frames by hand
in the end it is still the hand of man that builds and creates
Well said Dave, it is the nature of man to advance, look at progression of NEWSPRINT, to RADIO to TV, TO COMPUTERS just one example advances in every field as per GODS PLAN, LET US TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE TOOLS GIVING TO US, the end result is BY US any way you look at it, even though I am NOT and I repeat NOT TECH SAVY I do see the possibilities of better and quicker builds, THE EXPERTS WILLSTILL BE EXPERTS WILL STILL BE EXPERTS, BUT THE NOVICES AND INTERMEDIATE BUILDERS WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE of the new technology and will advance the hobby, it is about time to move on and catch up to the world, just my 2 cents. Don
Yes, there are welcome changes in supplies for our hobby, no question. I particularly find the way into which CNC carving goes in some better Chinese kits very promising. The current 3-4 axis technology is breathtakingly good for scroll carvings, sometimes so good that it can not be duplicated manually. I think this is the best technology for the near future. The artwork can be done in magnification and then the CNC does the job in such resolution and repeatability that only Ivan Trtanj can compete with it... When it comes to real 3D objects (figure heads and the like) we still have a fair way to go though.
For me not only the shape is what counts. I value the true material higher than the better resolution of modern technologies like 3D printing. Even if the shape can not be so true than with a print for me a carved timber part (be it manual or CNC'd) wins hands down against a printed one (or, even more, against the cheap and mostly poorly shaped metal castings of European or American kits.) The same for metal parts. Cannon barrels have to be in metal, full stop.
Janos
For me not only the shape is what counts. I value the true material higher than the better resolution of modern technologies like 3D printing. Even if the shape can not be so true than with a print for me a carved timber part (be it manual or CNC'd) wins hands down against a printed one (or, even more, against the cheap and mostly poorly shaped metal castings of European or American kits.) The same for metal parts. Cannon barrels have to be in metal, full stop.
Janos
Last edited:
Hallo @Duff ,
I fully agree with Zoltan´s words.....a lot of members know the Swan class, especialy because of the books from David, so it would be very interesting to see such a built here in our forum......Would be great
