General CAD Drawing: Misc discussion

JosephH

JosephH

Joined
May 6, 2017
Messages
798
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308

Location
Moline, Illinois USA
if you want donnie I have a full set of drawings for a 1/3 scale Bently BR-2 Rotory engine if you want them to draw up these are for an actual working model of rotory engine pretty gool stuffthere is a place called ageless Engines sells plans for radials and rotorys pretty cheap also has a really nice set of steam engine plans and operates a stern paddlewheel the engine plans for the steam are $65 I will be orering them in the next couple days myself and if they like the BR-2 plans they well worth it http://www.agelessengines.com/sb-plans.htm
 
Thank you Joe. That is great. I can follow these tutorials as it give virtually step by step clicks. But, when I try on my own, I just draw (no pun intended) a blank. But, there are some things that I am learning. Ship drawing is vastly different and I have a lot of catching up to do.

Donnie
:)
 
i know what you are saying donnie there are times i do something then a few day later go back and sit there thinking oh man how did i do that?
the way i learned Autocad and turbocad is flying solo tutorials are great for getting the overall idea but starting with a blank drawing really teaches you.

for one thing there are a lot of commands and tools in these programes that you do not need so i go with what i need to do at first.

So

i will sit down and draw a box 3 x 3 x 3 ok got it now how do i move around it? once i figured that out now i want to put a hole through the box. I watch tutorials see how it is done and spend days putting holes in things. The trick is starting with simple things like wanting the do the fly wheel on the steam engine that is what i want to draw in 3D so that is ALL i focus on. Tutorials are great for an overall picture of how to use a drawing program but they can be a little overwhelming baby steps is the key. i might spend weeks doing nothing but moving a part around a drawing and buiulding an object.
 
Demo Drawing: Belaying Pin Rack

This is an example from a "blank screen" and I made up these dimensions in my head only to demo a point. The first drawing is technical, next is illustrative and the last of course is illustrative as well with materials and lighting added. What I am demonstrating is obvious to the fact that there are several ways to do drawing. Not only that, I could have added dims to the 3D as well.
So, in sharing plans or helping each other is good, but I guess it should be determined who would focus on more, the technical and the other person as illustrator? Not sure. Then you have multitudes of ways to do dims, line colors, etc. It is all simple to demo a point that I am trying to make.

The 3D image here is taken straight from the 2D actual drawing.

belaying-pin-illustration.jpg​

​
 
Donnie some inspiration for you some engines I did for aircraft for making resin casts

1: Bearmore

2: Le Rhone

3: Mercedes DIII for Richtovens Albatros DVa

Beardmore.pngLeRhone-01.pngMercedes DIII.png
 
Made you and anyone that wants a care package. Bentley BR-2 drawings to make a working bentley, Clerget Drawings, and actual factory drawings for the Model Colt 1911 .45 caliber pistol it was built here at the Rock Island arsenal and tested here before it was sent off for production and these are copies of the original drawings from the arsenal http://www.proflooney.net/Bentley_Plans.rar

if nothing else they make nice historical documents and even some nice parts to practice cad skills on. it is what I used when learning solidworks 3D
 
So, Joe. How come the last two drawings have this black "outline" to all the parts and the first image does not?
 
to me personally this is all very interesting and appeals to my tech and engineering side. But to the other 900+ members of the forum it seems there is no interest. I can understand this because so very few can actually do CAD work even less that can do 3D model building. If this was a forum on CAD and 3D this subject would be filled with comments and questions making it interesting.

in the long run 3D instruction models can be created and a model builder can look at the model and all the pieces and how it all fits together. This is where it is headed the slow down is very few people that can actually do this. It is not a lack of "how to do it" it is a lack of people that can and are willing to do it.

this is a miss match like giving a speech on sewing to a room full of auto mechanics. They don't care nor can they make comments because they know nothing about dress making or sewing.

by the way Joe the posted drawings are outstanding

I can see in my head a complete historically correct 3D drawing of a city class ironclad steam system.
 
Dave, When you are free from other duties, WHY NOT TAKE THE LEED ON THE 3-D with JOSEPH, POST IT EVERYWHERE, THERE MUST BE A GROUP OF PEOPLE USING CAD AND 3-D MODELS AND INSTRUCTIONS, start there, I KNOW YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT the smalness of our hobby compared to others like Railroad, RC airplanes etc, but I think you are foregetting a market that probally doubles or triples what you think are the numbers, THAT IS THE OVERSEAS MARKET, there has to be a large group or the Chinese or the Russians would not be as susefull as they are, I came across one of the Chinese Co. along with plans and instructions they show a 3-D model it happens to be one of your kits the Halifax, weather you reilize it or not you really are the leader of this ENDEVER, like you said it is the future try the topic on NBM FACEBOOK PAGE SHOWING WHAT YOU AND JOSEPH CAN DO AND SEE THE RESPONCE, IF YOU CAN NOT LOG IN FOR SECURITY REASONS LET JOSEPH TAKE THE LEED THERE, and JOESPH I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE TRYING DIFFERENT MODELS IT IS A LEARNING CURVE ON SHIP MODELING AND WHAT YOU CAN ACOMPLISH, STICK TO IT AND CONTINUE TO POST WHEREVER YOU CAN, JUST MY THOUGHTS AGAIN, let me here coments please. Don
 
I came across one of the Chinese Co. along with plans and instructions they show a 3-D model it happens to be one of your kits the Halifax, weather you realize it or not you really are the leader of this endeavor,

Well that is, I believe one reason of not wanting to do all the research like the Cairo and guys like Donnie and Joe and myself spending countless hours learning how to create these models then being on the cutting edge to advance the hobby only to have some company in China take our work, our ideas, our research and rip us off. As long as these companies are supported and their products are in demand that is the way it is. I guess I can say to myself yup that was my idea, my kit and my design so all in all I guess I am one of the leaders I get no credit for it just pat myself on the back and say good job.


I KNOW YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT the smallness of our hobby compared to others like Railroad, RC airplanes etc, but I think you are forgetting a market that probably doubles or triples what you think are the numbers,

I know what you are saying if you look at this forum and look at the history of posts and topics you would think there are maybe 35 people total but really there are 900+ they just have nothing to say or add to the hobby. Same with a lot of model builders who do not even join forums but quietly build things in their shop. So yes I believe put it out there because there are a lot of builders who keep to themselves and do not get involved. In general this is such a tiny hobby it can not support expensive R&D which could be a reason these companies in China will rip off others work it is cheaper.
 
yes but what I have in mind will put any of the other 3D guys to shame. see their stuff is 3D but it is still images. My 3D for builders will be interactive where they can phisically rotate parts turn sections of the drawings on and off etc. they will actually be able to manipulate the 3D drawing to see whatever they want to see and to see it from whatever angle they want.

Maybe sometime next week I will have something ready for the bomb vessel to show people what is up and coming
 
also I guess I am in the minority here but I have been deep into the manufacturing world as plant manager and in charge of the factory and I can tell you there isnt an industry out there that doesn't take someone else's product bring it into their plant, copy it and then change it to suit their needs. its the same with boats, cars, refrigerators, spas etc so to me the Chinese just doing what every American factory does and it is part of life and business so I don't get all upset. plus they seem to be doing it better than the others putting out better quality kits so if they can do it why cant the companies whose ideas they take spend the time and up their quality so they can compete.

me myself I don't care who I buy from as long as it is at a price I can afford and is of high quality.
why people trash the Chinese when every company in the world including the US does the same is beyond me that is why we get affordable things someone buys someone else's product and then alters it from there. legally you only need a 10% overall change to a product to call it your own. tha'ts how companies save millions on R & D.

and since the topic has been beaten to death in many other threads i wont comment any more about it everyone knows how I feel now

PS Sorry Donnie to have gone off topic feel free to remove my comments if you like
 
actually I agree with you Joe that is the way it is and i accept that fact, work I do will go on in some form or another by others. I sure am not spooked by some company in China taking say the Cairo I will do my part regardless of the end results. could say I like the hunt for information and the process of learning. Maybe even getting a warm fuzzy feeling that some company on the other side of the world actually recognizes what i did or what I am doing.

getting back to the topic at hand

creating a 3D model of a ship from the keel up is a massive job even more so because you are learning as you go. The engines on the Cairo are something that can be done because it is mechanical in nature. Trying to created figures and carvings are another matter all together and that is difficult.
I think the first step is creating a 2D CAD drawing of say the engine and export it as a DXF file all CAD both 2D and 3D will import this type of file. Do the drawing in 1:1 scale so everyone is doing the same thing. Now at this point Donnie can look at it and think ok fine I can draw that valve or handle or whatever part, Joe can mess around with a part Bob can download the original 2D file and create the 6 columns or the walking beam. and in time we would have a collection of the parts that make up the entire engine. As a one man operation it is very time consuming but with a group it is a different story. Personally I would offer the drawings copyright FREE to anyone who can do something with them. So someone into CNC milling may want to machine a working model, R/C guys may think cool and do a working R/C model, someone into 3D printing may think nice project and use the files and print out a kit. Even the Cairo museum themselves may take an interest in an interactive 3D presentation like Joe was talking about.

right now the search goes on to figure out the engine and I will continue to post search results in the Cairo topic
 
Dave, Joseph and now donnie, MY COMENTS TO DAVE, YES YOU ARE THE LEADER, ABSOLUTLY AND CREDIT IS GIVEN TO YOU BY THE ONES IN THE KNOW AND YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE, so continue you yourself and Winston had a discussion sometime ago on the project forum on MSB, as i got the crus of the results it seems like, you both came to the conclsion that that is the way it is in this global world, you said it yourself get the project out be the first take the sales and if the copy cats take it go to the next one,,,, I FOR ONE HAVE PURCHASED A CHINESE KIT BUT PROBALLY NOT USE ZHL, as I think I got ripped off in one of there cheaper models, IF I BY FROM THEM IT IS SIMPLY THE TYPE OF MODEL IS AVAILABLE NOW WHERE ELSE AND TRY TO STAY WITH SOME OF THERE ORIGINAL CONCEPTS, like the ribbed May flower, or the X sections of the vessels like PETER THE GREAT FLAGSHIP, DO I CONDONE THIS NO I DO NOT AND WILL BY FROM THE LUMBERYARD BEFORE ANYPLACE ELSE, if what i want is avaiable, ( THIS REMINDS ME OF SOMETHING THAT HAPENED MANY YEARS AGO aT LEAST 50 years ago, it conerned my Dad who was in the ARMY AIR FORCE IN WWII, in BURMA, but had a really bad complex feeling toward GERMANY AT THAT TIME AND PERHAPS IT NEVER LEFT HIM, but as an engineer and a car entuaste he bought a MERCEDES DISEL, to ask him why was a NO, NO) MY THOUGHTS WAS IT WAS THE BEST OUT THERE FOR THE PRICE),,,back on topic TO DAVE, JOE, DONNIE, MIKE 41 etc continue the process but quickly as not get second fiddel, new products new concepts in building, and quality materials, you will not stop these people but you can cut into there niche, more time should be spent and better coordination to get the projects out is a nescity, you all know the market we all do, cater to that market and produce quality products tha are quick builds say 3 to 6 mos not years inovation will rule, and to JOESPH COMENTS YES YOU ARE CORECT IN WHAT YOU SAY, LOOK AT HOW MANY COs BUILD THE BLUENOSE, VICTORY, CUTTY SARKS IT IS ENDLESS, adoubt or fail AND YOU GUYS ARE NOT BUILT TO FAIL, WE WHO LOVE THIS HOBY DEPEND ON WHAT YOU COME UP WITH AND DO NOT WORRY IF YOU HAVE TO TAKE AN IDEA FROM THE CHINESE AND USE IT, as I know the subject of costs come up, BUT AS YOU SEE PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO SPEND A WOLE LOT OF MONEY FOR WHAT THEY WANT ( I CAN NOT AND WOULD NOT PAY THOSE PRICES< BUT WILL SPEND QUITE A BIT FOR WHAT I WANT, much more then I have been, MY THOUGHTS AS ALWAYS, LET ME HERE FROM YOU. Don
 
Hey guys sorry so quiet but works been killing me averaging 4 to 8 hrs OT a day as we transfer over to spring stuff and have a new regional mgr that since we got the largest store in the area has made bi weekly visits getting new stuff set up in our store to test out since we so busy. lol last week we got so hammered we had made 2.5 mil in the store by wed.

Anyways I ordered from seawatch the USS Susqueyana or however it spelled the side wheeler with sails admiral perrys ship he took to japan, might as well use some that OT money and grab a set of plans and book I been wanting to do for a while.

but more importantly, those that remember it one of my first ships I tried to do was the Light Vessel cause it is so unusual and diferent from anything anyone else has doen so far.

well using all my knowledge and experience I gained from the Elephant and the Bomb Vessel loftings I was finally able to get a perfect full ship loft on something and here it is

A First Class Light vessel Full Hull Loft which means all my cant frames etc can be taken directly off the loft with no guesswork and when it is assembled and built everything will fit perfectly.

Light-52.png
 
Hi Joe,
The hull looks great, will you be posting the frames and deck details for this ship? I would be interested in building a prototype for a group build if there is an interest on the site.
Mike
 
Like I said depends on work as its been night mare and supposed to be for another 2 or 3 months. however its good fri so off today and trying to get the frames all done as I have all the part files made just have to thicken everything.
I dont go in til 10pm tomorrow night so hoping to get the frames all done if I can at least get that much the rest should be fairly easy to lay out.
 
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