Independence rigging problems

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steveslight
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Independence rigging problems

Post by steveslight » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:15 am

My first time is an Artesania Latina build, the Independence 1775, which has gone fairly well so far. The instructions (with some bits 'lost in translation') are OK for the woodwork construction. My problem now if anyone can help is that the rigging instructions are drawings/diagrams only. These leave a lot to be desired. Inaccuracies, conflicting diagrams, and missing drawings of pathways of various rigging.

I am completely stuck now as there are quite a few single or double blocks which are attached directly to the decking, with no indication as to what they are for. No obvious clues either!

Can anyone who has made this model help with any suggestions?



Thanks,

Steve

England, Uk.

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GaryM
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Re: Independence rigging problems

Post by GaryM » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:56 am

I am not familiar with the rigging of this vessel but there are several books on rigging that might help in the reference material listed on this site. Young Officer's Sheet Anchor might be a great help. Another book by Peterson might also be helpful.
Happy modeling,
Gary Maple

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fragle123
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Re: Independence rigging problems

Post by fragle123 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:07 pm

hi steve
if you look down the threads you will see that someone else is already building this kit but not as far along as you but she maybe able to give you some advise/help on the plans as she will have her own set,sorry i cant be of more help but the AL rigging plans do leave alot to be desired as i have similar issues with my kit
cheers steve

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Donnie
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Re: Independence rigging problems

Post by Donnie » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:24 pm

Steve,
I can certainly understand. I think that I just overcame that hurdle myself. I have one important question. Are most all (95%) of those blocks located at the base of each Mast ?

If so, then what I have discovered is that those blocks are used for the Halyards which lift the Yards. There also can be another set of blocks that are used for the Stays.

There are usually also a set of blocks aft to the Spanker Boom and Gaff. Those blocks would be used for managing the swing of the booms, etc.

Do you have a plan view of the deck? If so, I don't think there would be a problem if you could take a picture of the area(s) that you have question about and I can look at it for you.

Donnie
Current Build: Panart San Felipe 1:75
Completed Build: Santisima Trinidad

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steveslight
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Re: Independence rigging problems

Post by steveslight » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:29 am

Thank you all for your responses.
Most of the blocks are located at the base of the masts. And I will certainly be following the progress of the other build, fragle123.

Donnie, I will try and take some meaningful photos of the deck and a plan (such as it is) and post it. The blocks which control the swing of the booms are obvious from the plans and from some photos of other builds from the internet.
With the other blocks the plans indicate where the end of the line is, but not which deck block it goes through to get there. Which is the frustrating part!

I'm still progressing with what is obvious from the plans, but at some stage I'm going to have to commit to tying off to finish it.

Thanks for your help.
Steve

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Re: Independence rigging problems

Post by Tadeusz » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:12 am

This books can help you to solve rigging problems:
http://www.shipsofscale.com/phpBB3/view ... ?f=6&t=431

Happy knotting.

Tadeusz

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steveslight
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Re: Independence rigging problems

Post by steveslight » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:15 am

Hi Tadeusz,

dziękuję!

This is a very useful list of books. I will try and get hold of one or all. The one which is for fore and aft rigging looks the most promising.

Steve

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Re: Independence rigging problems

Post by Donnie » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:00 pm

Ok Steve,
this is the best I can do and I can almost say for a fact that this is what to do. The first image is of a "jeers" type of rigging where you have two halyard lines coming down to the Deck Blocks (at base of Mast). This will be most likely especially on larger ships on the Main Course Yard, Foremast Course, and Mizzen. That is the Yard closest to the Deck and is the largest Yard.

The other image is showing another typical of any lower yard, top gallant, or royal, etc. This rigging can also be used for the Main Yard as it really depends on large the ship is. Another indicator would be how many Blocks you have at base of Mast vs. How many yards.

ex: Three Yards and four Blocks. Most likely two of the front on EACH SIDE will be for the lower or main course yard (Jeers type) and the other two Blocks for the other two yards.

ex: Three Yards and Three Blocks. Most likely each Yard is associated with one Block each.

Ex: If you have more Blocks than yards, most likely the extra blocks will be used for the lower and upper stays (thats the larger line that ties from Mast to Mast - in the center.

Look at your plans and see if they give you a "profile" view of the plans and see if they are using any of the Blocks for the lower and upper stays.

I hope this helps.
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steveslight
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Re: Independence rigging problems

Post by steveslight » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:00 am

Hi Donnie,

thanks so much, that is of great help.
I will still send you some photos if that's OK so you know what it looks like.

I'm on the home stretch now and am anxious to finish it off, but as correctly rigged as possible.

Regards,
Steve

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catopower
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Re: Independence rigging problems

Post by catopower » Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:30 am

Hi Steve,

I'm building the Independence too. Though I haven't reached the point where you're at, I've built many schooners and topsail schooners. I agree that you would find the Lennarth Petersson Fore-and-Aft Rigging book useful. Don't follow it to the letter as I believe the example of the topsail schooner isn't necessarily following American rigging practices. But, it does give a better idea of how topsails schooners are rigged. Unfortunately, nobody makes a good book on the schooner rig in all it's variations. I have dug up bits and pieces of information over the years from different sources, so I usually end up referring to them.

Most of what I see in the Independence that I think causes the most confusion is simply where lines are belayed and which ones run through blocks on the deck. In general, I'd say all halliards (lines that are used to raise and lower gaffs and yards) should run down through single sheave blocks on the deck and then belay to the cross bits forward of the respective mast.

In reality, I believe there should be cleats attached to the base of the masts to which some lines would be belayed, but I don't think Artesania Latina has you do that, so you're somewhat limited to belaying everything to that cross bit. Also, belaying pin racks are less common on small vessels at this time period, and ships of this type often had cleats attached to the inner side of the lower shrouds to which some lines would belay. Again, AL doesn't provide this, so you just have to do what you can and crowd stuff on those cross bitts.

If you're early enough in your build to add cleats to the lower masts, you could add two to six on each mast and that will help relieve some of the crowding on the cross bits. Also, you can try to fashion some for the shrouds, though that might be harder. I've personally never done that yet, but I will on this model.

Hope that helps!

Clare

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