Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre

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Anguirel
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Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre

Postby Anguirel » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:44 pm

Hi,

Ever since I felt the need do to another ship model, at the beginning of this year I started looking around for model kit and brands. My first thought was to build the HMS Victory, but although this is not my first model kit (I have the HMS Endeavour and São João Baptista, I did them log ago in what seems a different life) I thought that the HMS Victory could be too much skill and money. So I started to look at other ship that participated in the battle of Trafalgar and narrow it down to two: the Santissima Trinidad and the Santa Anna. In the end I went to the Santissima Trinidad. After that first decision I started my research of the ship. My knowledge of the ST could by resumed to she being the ship with more guns, that it was the flag ship of the Spaniards and it was taken during the battle and later sunk in the storm that follow it so suffice to say I needed to do my home work.

At the time the kit arrived my idea was to build the ship following the model with two differences: the stern and the forecastle. for these alteration I was going to follow the model of the Real Carlos from the Madrid's Naval Museum. My problem now is that I feel I have enough information to build her as she left Cuba but I'm afraid this would require more skill then the one I have.

Did anyone went through the same predicament? I would really like to hear your opinions as them might shed some light and help me decide the best way to go.

Now to the build itself. The problem started as soon as I open the box. as I was going though the different elements of the kit I notice that the front half of the false keel was bended.


Image

Image

Image

I tried to put it back to the original position, soaked it in hot water and left it pressed for two days. on the second day, in the morning before work I looked at it and it was dry and perfectly flat I was a happy man. Wend I came back from work in the end of the day it was back in its original bended position...
Since I couldn´t get it right and the solution of the man at the store was: buy a new one (they had one for sale) or do what I did I decided to go a different way. do a few holes in the frames and use some wedges to force the false keel in to the right position.

Image

Image

Because I would never get a perfect square alignment of the frames I didn't glue the frames to the false keel so I will have some freedom of movement when placing the deck planks.

Image

As you can see from the last photo the first frame is no aligned (none of the frames in the first half of the false keel are) but I can ajust it because they are not glued...

:)
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GaryM
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Re: Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre

Postby GaryM » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:03 pm

I would lightly soak it again and us an iron to iron it flat. Heat causes the molecules of wood to actually realign. I would iron it until the wood is dry. Then I would use a straight piece of wood and glue where it will not be in the way of the build but will stop the wood from bending again. Let the glue set for 24 hours before raising the piece and verifying the straightness.
Happy modeling,
Gary Maple

Problems are just challenges waiting for your solution.

Current build: Sergal Sovereign of the Seas
In Que: Sergal: Cutty Sark and Amerigo Vespucci; Billings Titanic
Completed: Amati: HMS Prince (old 1:78 version); Billings: Norske Love and Vasa; Mantua: La Couronne; Sergal: Mississippi Riverboat and La Soleil Royal
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Donnie
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Re: Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre

Postby Donnie » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:36 pm

I never thought about that Gary - (glad we have you around).

Anguirel,
To be honest, I really did not know that much about the Santisima Trinidad when I started mine. Sadly to say, I do not know much more than I did. Partly due to the fact of all of my research just came up with little. There were times that I spent hours trying to find more info.

Seems like you know more than I do at this stage. I am happy to see another ST join the ranks. I know of another friend that is going to start the ST very soon. I need to nudge him to get his build log going too. He is a member here too. I will write him an email tonight and encourage him to join in.

Donnie
Current Build Prep: Panart San Felipe 1:75
Completed Build: Santisima Trinidad

Main SOS Site: Ships of Scale Website

No Guts, No Glory !
Anguirel
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Re: Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre

Postby Anguirel » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:24 pm

Hi,

There is nothing I can do about the false keel now in my desperation, due to the failure of my attempt and the reply off the store I glue the seventh (if not mistaken) and the first frames. But you suggestion GaryM, I suspect will be useful at some point.

As for my knowledge of the ST, right now Donnie is more them I would want because its not letting me chose what version to aim for.

but that's a philosophical question that can still wait. More pressing is the deck planking. I found this ST plan during my research:

Image

I want to use this layout but can't make sense of the 110 measurement in the fifth row and the lack of measurement in the next plank in the same row. I simulated the planking using just 110 for that row and it these not make sense. In the end I assumed that the drawing is at scale I came up with 500 and 110 for the fifth row, So this is how it looks like:

Image

Is there any other interpretation of this...

:)
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GaryM
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Re: Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre

Postby GaryM » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:35 pm

I do not understand and it does not look like anything I have every seen anywhere. Everything on a ship is usually balanced and follows some hard rules that have been learned over time. Where the decking method you show came from, I do not know but would like to find out if such a thing existed and what was its reason.
Happy modeling,
Gary Maple

Problems are just challenges waiting for your solution.

Current build: Sergal Sovereign of the Seas
In Que: Sergal: Cutty Sark and Amerigo Vespucci; Billings Titanic
Completed: Amati: HMS Prince (old 1:78 version); Billings: Norske Love and Vasa; Mantua: La Couronne; Sergal: Mississippi Riverboat and La Soleil Royal
Anguirel
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Posts: 52
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Re: Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre

Postby Anguirel » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:14 am

Hi,

The deck plan comes from the Madrid's Naval Museum, I got them from this site:

http://santisima-trinidad.astillero.net/

but I haven't seen anything even similar anywhere...
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GaryM
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Re: Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre

Postby GaryM » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:50 am

Interesting since the background on the site only uses a 2 step planking scheme and the pictures of the model being built clearly uses the 2 step method for planking the decks.
Happy modeling,
Gary Maple

Problems are just challenges waiting for your solution.

Current build: Sergal Sovereign of the Seas
In Que: Sergal: Cutty Sark and Amerigo Vespucci; Billings Titanic
Completed: Amati: HMS Prince (old 1:78 version); Billings: Norske Love and Vasa; Mantua: La Couronne; Sergal: Mississippi Riverboat and La Soleil Royal
Anguirel
Petty Officer Third Class
Petty Officer Third Class
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre

Postby Anguirel » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:23 am

Hi,

Now that you mention there is a section of several examples of ships built using the plans and none of them uses the planking skeme in the plans...

:)
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Donnie
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Re: Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre

Postby Donnie » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:23 am

Anguirel,

I must apologize. I am glad that you posted that scheme. I could never figure out the 110. Now, I see at least what you are referring to. My mistake.

I also must admit too that I have never seen anything like with the 110.

Ok, I am really going to be dumb here: (as an example of TWO rows only shown)

Is the 600 repeated on the same row like | 600 | 600 | 600 | 600 |
Is the 220 repeated on the same row like | 220 | 220 | 220 | 220 | 220 | 220 | 220 | 220 |

or is each row a combination of different lengths?
Current Build Prep: Panart San Felipe 1:75
Completed Build: Santisima Trinidad

Main SOS Site: Ships of Scale Website

No Guts, No Glory !
Anguirel
Petty Officer Third Class
Petty Officer Third Class
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Santissima Trinidade 1:90 Scale OcCre

Postby Anguirel » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:09 pm

Hi,

No problem Donnie, one image is worth a thousand words...
This is the interpretation I made:

Image

1 - Solid line the plank runs from one end to the other, like Donnie said it's one plank next to the other always the same size
2 - Dashed line, the plank does not end there it end somewhere outside of the drawing
3 - the fifth row is were thinks start to change, mow we have two different sizes 110 and the other is not written. I used 110 and 500
4 - Up until now the planks seed to be centrer (black line) but in this row the planks is not centred (I moved the beginning of the 330 plank to the centre)
5 - line I drew defining the centre

Since this plans are from Spain I assume this measurements are in mm, so I used 600=6cm, 550=5.5cm ...

:)

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